Archive for the ‘NEWS’ Category

I understand that my opinion of the Ergun Caner controversy isn’t boding well with friends I have over in the Non Calvinist camp, but I can not apologize for the facts I have studied that have led me to a clear and convincing conclusion that Caner’s consistently changing stories are so bewildering that I could not in good conscience recommend such character as an example to be followed by students eager to learn God’s ways in their Christian walk.

As a former paralegal and intelligence analyst, of the many inconsistencies I’ve discovered in my own research of Caner’s claims was Caner’s claims to have been raised a Jihadist until he was 17 years old (although this video says he was 15 when he converted) : and the lack of the US intelligence agencies’ responses to that claim. Certainly, if Caner would have been interrogated by agencies such as the Central Intelligence Agencies (CIA), National Security Agency (NSA) or Homeland Security,  INTERPOL, or in Israel, Mossad, this would have been an incredible boost to his resume, and added credibility to his claim that he had in fact, been raised a Jihadist.

Since Caner claimed to have been raised Jihadist, this means that the sentiment would have been a familial goal. That being the case, every intelligence agency worth its salt would have wanted to question Ergun, and know the extent of his father’s involvement, if any, and if such intention still exists. They would have wanted to know who his trainers were, the locations of the Madrasas in Beirut (especially Beirut, since Hezbollah has many operations in Lebanon and is funded with millions of dollars by Iran), the identities of the leaders of any particular cell operations and where they were located, how many contacts did his father have, etc. If Caner was “raised” a Jihadist, then his father in coming to America would no doubt have had a specific plan, possible targets, and many Jihadists wait several years in order to implement such schemes at opportune times. Thus any information that could have been gleaned from not only Caner, but his brothers, mother,  father, and friends, would have been of extreme relevance, value and importance to intelligence agencies. Just because Caner converted, does not mean his past would cease to be relevant to intelligence agencies. On the contrary, it would become even more relevant because there’s always a possibility that the conversion could be a way to hide in plain site.

However, not once has Caner ever mentioned being detained or interrogated by any intelligence agencies, nor has he ever mentioned that anyone in his family has ever undergone the same. This would be HIGHLY unlikely and contrary to every known protocol among intelligence agencies not to thoroughly interrogate the Caners once Ergun declared publicly (even once to a group of United States military troops) that he was raised a Jihadist.

Furthermore, although most terrorist cells operate in small groups, once a cell has been compromised, those at the top of the food chain of that cell go to extremes to “tie up loose ends”. And because Jihadists use various intimidation tactics, they would have wanted Caner to know that  his actions in converting cost the lives of those whom he was trained with; yea they would have bragged about it, and used it as an example of what happens to those who defect. None of this is ever mentioned by Caner.

It also begs the question as to what extent any threats still exist. If Caner was raised a Jihadist, he was not raised in it alone. Now I affirm that Christ can save anyone (Heb 7:25), and I don’t want to cast doubt on Ergun or Emir’s conversions, but being converted does not eliminate the potential threat that could still exist. Even though Caner’s conversion was long ago, it is not uncommon for terrorist plots to take several years to come to fruition. As such, Ergun and Emir Caner would owe it to the citizens of America to cooperate with intelligence agencies in confirming their Jihadist plots and connections because the plot (if any) may have changed players, but that doesn’t mean the plot itself has changed, and the fact that Caner has been completely dishonest about his testimony should raise great alarm as to whether or not there may be a remaining threat if he was truly raised a Jihadist.

I don’t know why this issue has not been raised by those defending Caner, and even seems to be a matter that has been unnoticed by his opponents. I believe that Ergun Caner owes it to the American citizens and the intelligence communities to confirm whether or not any potential threats still exist. I’m sure that Lebanon would also appreciate knowing where these training centers are located so they could determine if they are still in use, and if the same people are still involved. That would also certainly be valuable information to US and Israeli intelligence. If the Caner’s father was building mosques inside America, and was an admitted Jihadist, where did the funds come from for the building projects? and did the Imams of those Mosques share the same sentiments as the Caners?

Ergun Caner has opened a can of worms with this side of his testimony and I believe there are several important issues that need to be resolved so that the citizens of America (and wherever else he trained for these Jihadist purposes) can feel safe in knowing that Caner has done all he can to insure that there will be no collateral damage as a result of his defecting from his childhood purpose, or that whatever crowd he was involved with is no longer a threat. But the fact that, as far as I have researched, Ergun has been completely silent about intelligence efforts to determine the extent of his involvement and whether or not there are any remaining potential threats is a very odd omission in his testimony.

Perhaps those reading this will yet believe Caner’s testimony. But in light of the afore mentioned factors, are you willing to take the chance that you could be wrong?

____________________________________

One additional note on Caner’s claim is that he stated to have been shocked at the 911 attacks. If he was trained to do exactly what was done on 911, converted or not, why would he be shocked? The 911 attacks should have come as no surprise to him.

*The claim that Caner was trained as a Sunni terrorist in Beirut is an odd claim in that the only known Sunni terrorist camps in that area are at that time were Al Qaeda, the rest are Shiite Muslims, Hezbollah in particular.

Updated November 6, 2013 (first published January 24, 2012) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org) -

zz_JohnMacArthur121205

This is a warning about the dangerous waters of evangelicalism and the fact that many fundamental Baptists are building bridges to these waters.

Recently I received an e-mail from a father who said that his church has begun using John MacArthur’s material for Sunday School. He asked, “Should a parent like myself be concerned?”

I replied:

“I would be extremely concerned if a church started using MacArthur’s material. Not only is he a staunch Calvinist who believes that one must be born again in order to believe, but he is a worldly rock & roll evangelical.”

In spite of the many good things in MacArthur’s teaching and his gift in exposition, Bible-believing parents should be deeply concerned about building bridges to him.

The first part of the following report is from the Middletown Bible Church, Middletown, Connecticut (no date), http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/separate/macrock.htm

John MacArthur hosts a youth conference which is called the “Resolved Conference.” Thousands of young people attend and listen to Christian lyrics sung to the heavy drum beat of rock music. There is no question that rock music is accepted and approved by John MacArthur and his church. This can be verified by going to the “Resolved” website [http://www.resolved.org/].

Peter Masters, Pastor of London’s famous Metropolitan Tabernacle where Spurgeon preached, wrote an article entitled, “The Merger of Calvinism with Worldliness.”  An excerpt from this article follows:

“When I was a youngster and newly saved, it seemed as if the chief goal of all zealous Christians, whether Calvinistic or Arminian, was consecration. Sermons, books and conferences stressed this in the spirit of Romans 12.1-2, where the beseeching apostle calls believers to present their bodies a living sacrifice, and not to be conformed to this world. The heart was challenged and stirred. Christ was to be Lord of one’s life, and self must be surrendered on the altar of service for him.

“But now, it appears, there is a new Calvinism, with new Calvinists, which has swept the old objectives aside. A recent book, Young, Restless, Reformed, by Collin Hansen tells the story of how a so-called Calvinistic resurgence has captured the imaginations of thousands of young people in the USA, and this book has been reviewed with great enthusiasm in well-known magazines in the UK, such as Banner of TruthEvangelical Times, and Reformation Today. This writer, however, was very deeply saddened to read it, because it describes a seriously distorted Calvinism falling far, far short of an authentic life of obedience to a sovereign God. If this kind of Calvinism prospers, then genuine biblical piety will be under attack as never before. The author of the book is a young man (around 26 when he wrote it) who grew up in a Christian family and trained in secular journalism. We are indebted to him for the readable and wide-reaching survey he gives of this new phenomenon, but the scene is certainly not a happy one.“The author begins by describing the Passion, conference at Atlanta in 2007, where 21,000 young people revelled in contemporary music, and listened to speakers such as John Piper proclaiming Calvinistic sentiments. And this picture is repeated many times through the book – large conferences being described at which the syncretism of worldly, sensation-stirring, high-decibel, rhythmic music, is mixed with Calvinistic doctrine.“We are told of thunderous music, thousands of raised hands, ‘Christian’ hip-hop and rap lyrics (the examples seeming inept and awkward in construction) uniting the doctrines of grace with the immoral drug-induced musical forms of worldly culture. Resolved is the brainchild of a member of Dr John MacArthur’s pastoral staff, gathering thousands of young people annually, and featuring the usual mix of Calvinism and extreme charismatic-style worship. Young people are encouraged to feel the very same sensational nervous impact of loud rhythmic music on the body that they would experience in a large, worldly pop concert, complete with replicated lighting and atmosphere. At the same time they reflect on predestination and election. Worldly culture provides the bodily, emotional feelings, into which Christian thoughts are infused and floated. Biblical sentiments are harnessed to carnal entertainment.’ (Pictures of this conference on their website betray the totally worldly, show business atmosphere created by the organizers.)“Truly proclaimed, the sovereignty of God must include consecration, reverence, sincere obedience to his will, and separation from the world. You cannot have Puritan soteriology without Puritan sanctification. You should not entice people to Calvinistic (or any) preaching by using worldly bait. We hope that young people in this movement will grasp the implications of the doctrines better than their teachers, and come away from the compromises. But there is a looming disaster in promoting this new form of Calvinism” (Peter Masters, “The Merger of Calvinism with Worldliness”).

MacArthur’s use of rock music in his own church is puzzling in light of the excellent statements he has made in the past against rock music, such as the following:

“Our music cannot be like the music of the world, because our God is not like their gods. Most of the world’s music reflects the world’s ways, the world’s standards, the world’s attitudes, the world’s gods. To attempt to use such music to reach the world is to lower the gospel in order to spread the gospel. If the world hears that our music is not much different from theirs, it will also be inclined to believe that the Christian way of life is not much different from theirs” (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary (1986)see discussion of Ephesians 5:20, p. 260).

“The association of hard rock with violence, blasphemy, sadomasochism, sexual immorality and perversion, alcohol and drugs, and Eastern mysticism and the occult are not accidental. they are fed from the same ungodly stream. A leading rock singer once said, ‘Rock has always been the devil’s music. It lets in the baser elements.’ Putting a Christian message in such a musical form [rock style] does not elevate the form but degrades the message to the level already established in the culture by that form” (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, see discussion of Ephesians 5:20, p. 261).

“It should be noted that the many contemporary entertainers who think they are using their rock–style music to evangelize the lost are often doing nothing more than contributing to the weakening of the church. Evangelizing with contemporary music has many serious flaws. It tends to create pride in the musicians rather than humility. It makes the gospel a matter of entertainment when there is not one thing in it that is at all entertaining. It makes the public proclaimers of Christianity those who are popular and talented in the world’s eyes, rather than those who are godly and gifted teachers of God’s truth. In using the world’s genres of music, it blurs the gap between worldly Satanic values and divine ones. It tends to deny the power of the simple gospel and the sovereign saving work of the Holy Spirit. It creates a wide generation gap in the church, thus contributing to the disunity and lack of intimacy in the fellowship of all believers. It leads to the propagation of bad or weak theology and drags the name of the Lord down to the level of the world. The music of the gospel is certainly not a legitimate means for making money or seeking fame, and it must never be allowed to cheapen what is priceless, or trivialize what is profound” (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, see discussion of Ephesians 5:19, p. 257).

“Rock music, with its bombastic atonality and dissonance, is the musical mirror of the hopeless, standardless, purposeless philosophy that rejects both God and reason and floats without orientation in a sea of relativity and unrestrained self–expression. The music has no logical progression because it comes from a philosophy that renounces logic. It violates the brain because its philosophy violates reason. It violates the spirit, because its philosophy violates truth and goodness. And it violates God, because its philosophy violates all authority outside of self” (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, see discussion of Ephesians 5:19-20, p. 261).

“It [rock music] does this by catering to pride, by being grounded in emotion, by appealing to the flesh, by watering down the message, by sending a false impression of the nature of the gospel, and by cheapening the Christian life.” Seehttp://data.bereanwife.com/ccm_pdf.pdf

“Now I believe that basically speaking, rock music in and of itself is problematic—period. And I believe that for many reasons. One is: rock music is a product of a disoriented, despairing, drug-related sex-mad generation. There’s no question about that. The first big rock singer was Elvis Presley, who killed himself with drugs and who went through women, you know, continuously. And he gave rise to the whole rock generation. He was the first, and his whole act was sexual, sensual, you know; it was terrible. Nowadays we think he was comical because we’ve come so far. But the vernacular of rock music at this particular point represents a generation that I have real trouble identifying with. And what happens is if you put a Christian message in that vernacular, I think Christianity suffers immensely because I don’t think you can take that kind of medium and use it to propagate a Christian message” [Transcribed from the tape, GC 1301-R, titled "Bible Questions and Answers Part 20." All Rights Reserved.]

We fully agree with these strong statements against rock music by John MacArthur. However, by tolerating and allowing rock music in his own church, MacArthur either does not practice what he preaches or he has changed his position on music, and no longer believes what he once preached.
____________________________

CONCLUSION BY BROTHER CLOUD

Indeed, John MacArthur is facing two ways in regard to the heresy of “cultural liberalism.” On one hand he reproves the emerging “new Calvinists” for their worldliness, while on the other hand he engages in that very thing.

In an interview with Alex Crain of Christianity.com, which was posted on YouTube, Aug. 18, 2011, MacArthur said:

“The fear is that the power of the world’s attraction is going to suck these guys and every generation after them, more and more into the culture, and we’re going to see a reversal of the Reformed revival. … My fear is that the further this thing goes in trying to accommodate the culture, the less it’s going to be able to hang on to that core doctrine” (“MacArthur Predicts Reversal of the Reformed Revival – Part 1,” http://youtu.be/xYhmo5gabQU).

MacArthur, who rightly warns that the heresy of cultural liberalism puts the next generation at risk, is referring to the popular philosophy which was enunciated by Mark Driscoll as the combination of “theological conservatism with cultural liberalism,” which is not new but has always been a major element of New Evangelicalism. It entails such things as Christian rock, drinking, champagne dance parties, beer brewing lessons, gambling nights, hula “worship,” analyzing R-rated movies for “edification,” and performing secular rock in the context of “worship.”

[Editor's Note: For an example of MacArthurites analyzing R-Rated movies, see our article on How James White Helps Spread Islam and Atheism, where Fred Butler's {an employee of John MacArthur} glowing reviews of Batman and Star Wars are discussed]

What MacArthur says about the danger of cultural liberalism is true, but his condemnation of it is grossly ineffective and hypocritical because he is guilty of it.

Camp Regeneration, a youth camp hosted by MacArthur for “churches throughout the nation each July,” is rife with cultural liberalism.

High school boys and girls dress immodestly, engage in questionable activities (such as girls getting covered with wet mud in the presence of boys) and rock out to rap music performed by ear-ringed, tattooed hip-hop artists in an atmosphere of darkened auditoriums, flashing lights, and smoke.

The Master’s College, which is headed by MacArthur, hosted a hip-hop concert in December 2011 featuring Lecrae, Trip Lee, Tadashii, Sho Baraka, DJ Official, and THI’SL. The Master’s College students produce pop/rap/country rock videos with full blown dance routines and covers of secular rock songs. They host a Fall Thing event that is extremely worldly. In 2011 the theme was “Unrestricted Reality,” and the students donned costumes imitating characters from Star Wars, sci-fi fantasy, super heroes, and the pop culture in general. This plays right into the hands of the culture’s fascination with fantasy and the devil’s use of it to corrupt men’s minds. The young people wouldn’t want to dress up this way unless their minds and hearts were already infatuated with Hollywood.

The Master’s College’s annual Week of Welcome features beach activities and pool parties complete with girls in tight and very skimpy bathing suits. (All of this is evident from the photos placed at the Flickr pages owned by the camp and school and from YouTube clips. See http://www.pccmonroe.org/2011/10.htm.)

Can someone tell me how MacArthur is leading the way against the adaptation of the sensual pop culture and why he is a safe “conservative” to follow? He was correct in observing that cultural liberalism will ruin the youth and eventually destroy sound doctrine, and his own flock will be the proof of it, as will those of every foolish pastor that follows in his footsteps.

Many fundamental Baptists are on the same destructive path, as we have documented in the free eBook “Biblical Separatism and Its Collapse Among Fundamental Baptists.” See www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/.
___

About Way of Life - The name “Way of Life” is from Proverbs 6:23: “For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life.” The biblical instruction that molds men to God’s will requires reproof. It is not strictly positive. It does not focus on man’s “self-esteem.” It does not avoid controversial or unpopular subjects. It warns as well as comforts. It deals with sin and false teaching in a plain manner. It is reproves, rebukes, exhorts with all longsuffering and doctrine (2 Tim. 4:2). This is what we seek to do through Way of Life Literature. The Way of Life preaching and publishing ministry based in Bethel Baptist Church, London, Ontario, of which Wilbert Unger is the founding Pastor. A mail stop is maintained in Port Huron, Michigan.

Subscribe to these reports by email

Way of Life Literature – http://www.wayoflife.org
copyright 2013 – Way of Life Literature

I believe the crux of this article to be so profound that it doesn’t need to be very long. Suffice it to say, other than maybe this website, and a very small handful of other Non Calvinists, the majority of those who have chased after Ergun Caner have been Calvinist pastors, authors, and churches. Should Ergun Caner be “exposed”? We think he has been, but it has now become such an obsession among the Calvinists that they have stooped to extremely unchristian tactics, created fake profiles (one of them is called “Lumpy Peter” which I believe belongs  to Jim De Arras) and videos to chastise Caner’s supporters (some using bikini clad women and bar scenes full of debauchery), and downright deceitful and lying methods in order to justify their pursuit of repentance and justice (which we have documented in our last several articles which you can view on the left side under “Recent Posts”).

Now here’s the punchline:

IF THESE SAME CALVINISTS WOULD HAVE PURSUED THE PERPETRATORS IN THE SOVEREIGN GRACE MINISTRY SEX ABUSE COVER UP SCANDALS WITH THE SAME RIGOR, THERE MAY BE FEW LESS PERVERTS RUNNING AROUND IN THEIR MINISTRY AND A LOT MORE JUSTICE, WITH A FEW MORE PARENTS FEELING ITS SAFER TO TAKE THEIR CHILDREN TO SONDAY SCHOOL.

Now I believe that there is a legitimate complaint against Ergun Caner, but I also believe that so much noise has been made about it to divert attention away from the publicity that many Calvinist churches have received over the sex scandals that have plagued the Sovereign Grace Ministries and other Southern Baptist Convention churches. It’s like watching the Bill Clinton scandal. When the media attention became too much, Clinton diverted attention from the impeachment trials by bombing Northern Africa.

JD Hall of Reformation Montana, who recently interviewed James White on the Caner scandal, admitted that he said Brewton-Parker college hated Muslims because they hired Ergun Caner. While I certainly question the discernment (or lack thereof) of BP hiring Caner, to make such an ignorant angry statement that this college hates Muslims is irresponsible, and could prove to be dangerous for students of that college. Radical Muslims (who really don’t need any other excuse than that a person is Jewish, American or Christian) could take this statement and use it to justify attacking Brewton-Parker students whom they believe “hate Muslims” because some popular Calvinist radio show host broadcasted this sentiment all over the internet and radio waves.

But did Hall repent for this? Did he apologize? Did he ask forgiveness from those it could have harmed? Of course not. Sure, he admitted that he said it in anger, and that it was a stupid comment, but what if Timothy Rogers had made that same statement? You can bet that Hall would have fired up the phone lines and demanded that his followers deliver Rogers head on a charger.

So while the Caner defenders may have “Canerized” their arguments in defense of Caner, Caner’s opponents have “Servetisized” those who have defended Caner. Those in pursuit of Caner have failed to see just how counter-productive their methods have been which has and will continue to push Caner and his supporters further into their defensiveness.

However, one can’t help but notice how the Reformed churches are using this event to vilify all of the Non Calvinist churches. Caner and Norman Geisler have now become the poster models for all that’s wrong with the Un-Calvinized. JD Hall has even opined that Caner and any of his supporters are unregenerate children of the devil. The impression that this gives which inadvertently gives Calvinists an argumentative advantage in the debate over Calvinism is that those on the fence about the “doctrines of grace” choose Calvinism by default if the opposition can prove that the leaders of Calvinist opposition are not saved. It’s an underhanded debate tactic that takes a worthy complaint and gives it a double-edged sword in its attack against the dissenters (which I presume is why Peter Lumpkins wrote an article about “The Real Evangelical Cover Up” about the Calvinists defense of John Calvin’s treatment of Michael Servetus).

To James White’s credit, I have not seen him stoop to some of the PERSONAL gutless and degrading tactics used by some of Caner’s opponents although I still question some of his other motives (as explained above).Yet as the most outspoken critic on this issue, even admittedly “taking the lead” on it, neither has White decried and repudiated the tactics of those on his side. Since many of the Caner supporters look up to White, White could simply say, “Look fellas, we have a legitimate gripe here, but we’re not going to accomplish anything if we pursue it like heathens”. So White’s tacit support of such antics makes him just as complicit in them.

Going back to the beginning of this article, will these same combatants deal with their own in the same manner as they have pursued Caner when sexual abuse has threatened to define their character? James White has not considered this travesty an apologetics issue even though he aggressively (and rightly so) attacks the views of the homosexual community. Should not preaching about the proper role of sex between a man and a woman not include the proper relationship between a man/woman and a child? When so many have left the churches over the abuse of their children and turned to atheism, agnosticism, skepticism (see any of our articles on the “Do Right” Cults and Stuff Fundies Like websites for documentation on this) how is that NOT an apologetics issue? Teaching the “whole counsel of God” is not just about “winning debates” against those antagonistic to the Christian faith. Apologetics is about giving an answer to those who have reasons to reject Christianity.

Not that we will ever agree with Calvinists or those in the Southern Baptist Convention doctrinally, or in their liberal standards of Christian conduct (dress, music, etc..) but it would be nice to see some consistency among those who name the name of Christ because even though I would never identify myself with those groups or denominations, when we debate those in the world they don’t see Calvinist, or independent Baptist, they see “Christians” acting like morons, and it DOES have an impact on the ability to effectively present the gospel to lost souls.

Tim Rogers is a pastor of a Baptist church in North Carolina. On December 29, 2013, Rogers expressed his ire at James White and several other “Tweeters” that follow White regarding White’s personal vendetta against Ergun Caner carried on for several years now which has become an obvious obsession of Dr. White’s and his ilk.

On a side note, regardless of White’s motive, which I believe to be reprehensible in the manner in which he and his followers have pursued Ergun Caner, particularly in cooperation with Muslims, Ergun Caner has displayed actions that simply can not be explained any other way than deliberate embellishments of his debates and his upbringing. As a certified legal assistance and former intelligence officer that has conducted numerous investigations and thousands of hours of legal research, I can say that I am comfortable with affirming the evidence that White has gathered against Ergun Caner is credible. As much as I despise White’s theology and his antics, I’ve found very little in the evidence he has presented against 2 major issues I stated above that I do not believe Caner can give a answer to.

Nevertheless, whatever conclusions that Tim Rogers has arrived at concerning his complaints, he did not deserve the type of treatment that he was threatened with by professing Christians. When Rogers pointed out that White’s sister had accused him of threatening her when she attempted to talk him about their father molesting her, White pulled the “rebuke not an elder” card  and blamed her story of being molested on her being “apostate“( a typical misinterpretation of 1 Timothy that I have even seen many times even among my own Baptist brothers), after all, if you’re a Roman Catholic, you weren’t really raped. Typical denial-by-character-assassination. It is ironic that White accused Rogers of “siding with Rome” because the rape victim is Catholic, when White himself has sided with TERRORIST MUSLIMS in obtaining information against Ergun Caner. White says Chris Pinto is a “conspiracy theorist” and yet his sister’s complaining about being raped is a Roman Catholic conspiracy against his preaching against them! My what tangled webs are weaved.

White’s followers threatened to disseminate Rogers telephone number on a radio national radio show:

JD Hall‏@PulpitAndPen @Timothy_Rogers@DrOakley1689 Tim, I will be calling you on the phone tomorrow to ask you to repent for these tweets. Please expect my call.
Tim Rogers ‏@Timothy_Rogers10h @PulpitAndPen@DrOakley1689 JD, do not call me. I will file stalking charges
JD Hall ‏@PulpitAndPen9h @Timothy_Rogers I WILL call you. File whatever you want. Then I will call your association members. Then your church members. Repent

*********************

JD Hall ‏@PulpitAndPen9h @Timothy_Rogers You are of your father, the devil. Caner’s defenders, as Rogers demonstrates, are lost men.
 ‏@PulpitAndPen9h I will call you. The #pulpiteers will call you. Listeners will call you. And your association. And your church members.

@DrOakley1689 is @Timothy_Rogers hiding in your bushes?

Jeremy ‏@CelticTornado10h @DrOakley1689@Timothy_Rogers I will take the low road…shut your mouth, get off twitter and get on your knees Tim
Alpha&Omega Ministry ‏@AominOrg12m @Timothy_Rogers I am done with you sir. You disgust me and I pray God will bring you low.
I’m not even going to bother posting some of the other responses as they are too vile and x-rated to post. Needless to say that White’s followers, some in which are pastors and radio show hosts, have displayed some of the most wicked and ungodly personal attacks I’ve seen on a blog or website among professing Christians. Men like White, Hall, Fred Butler, may be saved (I won’t vouch for their testimonies), but are some of the most pathetic excuses I’ve seen for Christians.
It is ironic that White and all of his followers expect everyone to read White’s documentation against Caner, but when Rogers gave the citation where Patty Bonds (White’s sister) very detailed story of sexual abuse can be found, not one of White’s followers bothered to comment on it. They simply attacked Rogers, threatened him, all without evaluating the evidence that he posted that is publicly available for anyone to read. We explained in our Response To James White why addressing such issues is important in which White merely brushed it off as “I am apologist, that’s not what I do”. Of course not. He only “exposes” those outside of his camp because White is attempting to set himself up as the sole guru of the apologetics world, and personally vilify anyone that opposes his brand of Calvinism and Bibliophobia.
White and his followers actions certainly resemble how their fathers, John Calvin and Augustine treated those who disagreed with them.
If White or any of his followers have called YOU or your church in a harassing manner, here’s a link on what you can do about it from a California website that offers a very good explanation on the issue. You may also file a complaint with your local law enforcement and state attorney general’s office.
___________________________________________________________
UPDATE 12/31/13:
True to his threat, Jordon “JD” Hall posted Rogers information on his website, and asked his followers to clog up the emails and phone lines of not only Rogers personal email and phone, but also the members of his church, and association. http://pulpitandpen.org/2013/12/30/sermon-notes/
First of all, Hall does not even tell his followers just what it is that Rogers is supposed to “repent of”. The only guess one could make is James White’s tweet accusing Rogers of violation 1 Timothy 5:19, which in itself, shows a clear ignorance of Scripture on the part of both White and Hall.
Secondly, Hall conveniently leaves out the tweets where Rogers asked him not to call him.
It is obvious that Hall is merely posting this information because he knows that it annoys Rogers, and is using it to harass Rogers for demanding that James White answer to allegations about covering up his sisters sexual abuse.
Perhaps we should contact all the members of Hall’s cult church, and send all of them a link to Patty Bond’s (James White’s sister) story of sexual abuse, and how White responded to it (and still responds to it), to see what it is their beloved Jesuit pastor is defending.
You know, for  Calvinists that believe that God must grant someone repentance (they did refer to Rogers as an unsaved child of his father the devil), Hall and White sure do a lot of begging other Non Calvinists to repent.
_____________________________________________
North Carolina Statute on Stalking and Harassment

§ 14-196.  Using profane, indecent or threatening language to any person over telephone; annoying or harassing by repeated telephoning or making false statements over telephone.

(a)        It shall be unlawful for any person:

(1)        To use in telephonic communications any words or language of a profane, vulgar, lewd, lascivious or indecent character, nature or connotation;

(2)        To use in telephonic communications any words or language threatening to inflict bodily harm to any person or to that person’s child, sibling, spouse, or dependent or physical injury to the property of any person, or for the purpose of extorting money or other things of value from any person;

(3)        To telephone another repeatedly, whether or not conversation ensues, for the purpose of abusing, annoying, threatening, terrifying, harassing or embarrassing any person at the called number;

(4)        To make a telephone call and fail to hang up or disengage the connection with the intent to disrupt the service of another;

(5)        To telephone another and to knowingly make any false statement concerning death, injury, illness, disfigurement, indecent conduct or criminal conduct of the person telephoned or of any member of his family or household with the intent to abuse, annoy, threaten, terrify, harass, or embarrass;

(6)        To knowingly permit any telephone under his control to be used for any purpose prohibited by this section.

(b)        Any of the above offenses may be deemed to have been committed at either the place at which the telephone call or calls were made or at the place where the telephone call or calls were received. For purposes of this section, the term “telephonic communications” shall include communications made or received by way of a telephone answering machine or recorder, telefacsimile machine, or computer modem.

(c)        Anyone violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1913, c. 35; 1915, c. 41; C.S., s. 4351; 1967, c. 833, s. 1; 1989, c. 305; 1993, c. 539, s. 128; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1999-262, s. 1; 2000-125, s. 2.)

SICK of Baptist Perverts

Posted: November 2, 2013 in IFB, NEWS, Uncategorized

Once again, another fundamental Baptist pastor makes the headlines for sexual abuse of a minor. On October 27, 2013, the Administrator of the Kings Way Christian School wrote a letter to all of the parents of its students stating that the ministry had accepted Pastor Bill Wininger’s resignation.

http://douglasville.11alive.com/news/news/473972-douglasville-pastor-quits-after-child-molestation-allegations-surface

Bill Wininger was the pastor of Kings Way Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, where he had been the pastor for 15 years until his recent resignation was given over allegations of sexual abuse by Bethany Leonard, who wrote an 11 page letter detailing her charges.

According to other news sources, similar allegations had surfaced in a previous church where Wininger was associated, and he wrote a book called, “A Church Falsely Accused”.

Here’s my idea for a book, “If Thine Anatomy Offends One of These Little Ones CUT IT OFF” I am so sick of reading about preachers in trusted positions manipulating and abusing young children while naming the name of Christ. God did not give you eyeballs to look upon a woman and child with lust. God did not give you hands to grope and feel up a little kid, and God did not give you a mouth to talk sexually to vulnerable children.

And those of you who work around these preachers that know exactly what is going on, WHERE ARE YOUR GONADS?? You gutless cowards make me sick and I would enjoy just 2 minutes alone with one of you perverts and your defenders to see how much of a man you really are. That child was fearfully and wonderfully made, and was not put on this earth to be the object of your sick affection. And the next time I am in the United States, and I visit one of your churches, I DARE one of you sissies to make a snide comment about this article. Grow up and act like men. “Oh but we’ll hurt the cause of Christ if we report it, who will run the church?” You moron, it’s GOD’S CHURCH, not the preachers, and it’s hurting the cause of Christ MORE by these actions, and you thin-skinned yellow bellies that keep it quiet.

There are thousands of Baptists who love the Lord, and strive to live lives pleasing to God, and study vigorously to win others to Christ, and you IDIOTS make it that much harder every time some new report comes out about another Baptist preacher that can’t keep his zipper intact.

Baptist preachers, deacons, church members, you have GOT to start standing up to the perverts in your church or the church is going to lose all credibility in its witness to the world, and lives are going to be devastated trying to overcome the abuse that your trusted ministers have put them through. If you are a church member that simply doesn’t care, well then stay home and shut up. But if you actually care, then start holding members and church leaders accountable. Now I’m not talking about unsubstantiated gossip, but if you KNOW something is going on, then be a Nathan and claim “Thou art the man”. This nonsense needs to stop in our churches. It’s pathetic.

Dr. James Ach

From the Jerusalem Post

Palestinian Authority president tells pope he hopes to sign peace treaty with Israel.

Pope Francis hosts Abbas at Vatican

Pope Francis hosts Abbas at Vatican Photo: REUTERS

During their first meeting in the Vatican, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday invited Pope Francis to visit the Holy Land.

Francis welcomed Abbas and presented him with a gift in appreciation of his efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East, the PA’s official news agency Wafa reported.

After the private part of the meeting, the pope gave Abbas a pen, telling him, “surely, you have a lot of things you have to sign.”

Abbas responded: “I hope to sign a peace treaty with Israel with this pen.”

Abbas’s spokesman Nabil Abu Rudaineh; Ziad al-Bandak, PA adviser on Christian affairs; and Bethlehem Mayor Vera Baboun attended Abbas’s Thursday meeting with the pope.

Francis, who was ordained in March of this year, has already said he would like to come to the Holy Land in response to a personal invitation from President Shimon Peres in April.

But no date has been set for such a visit, even though reports surfaced that the pope would come in March of next year. A Vatican spokesman said that while the pontiff was eager to visit Jerusalem, no specific plans have been made.

When Francis arrives, it is expected he would visit both Israel and the Palestinian territories, as did Pope Benedict XVI in 2009, and John Paul II in 2000.

To date there have been only three papal visits to the Holy Land.

Abbas’s visit with Francis follows on the heels of an announcement Wednesday night, that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu plans to meet with the pope in the Vatican next Wednesday.

Alex Jones and Anthony Gucciardi discuss the termination of  Navy Vice Admiral Tim Giardina and Maj. Gen. Michael Carey following leaked information about nuclear warhead transfers.

Click Here Missing Nuke Investigation

In other news:

Common Core Dirty Little Secret “There are four hundred points of data being collected, monitored and stored on every child in the American education system. Monitoring devices are being implemented in our children’s classrooms. All of this is being done under the guise of education reform.”

Israeli Defense Force (IDF) Find Terrorist Tunnel in Gaza 

NSA Spycamp Goes Up In Flames, Delays Program For One Year

California Signs Bill Allowing Nurses to Perform Abortions

Pentagon Spent $5 Billion on Weapons Eve of Government Shutdown

Ranger Told To Make Life Miserable For Citizens During Shutdown

Federal Attorney Warns of Negative Comments About Islam Could Lead to Prosecution and Imprisonment

Newspaper Sues For Names of Gun Owners

RFID Chip Part of Obama Health Care Law (“Obamacare”) (Begins with Ron Paul and Megan Kelly from the US Fox News)

Russia Cracks Down on Russian Muslims-300 Arrested (America could learn a few things from “Profiling” of terrorists and homosexuality from the Russians!)

Joel Osteen God Absolutely Accepts Homosexuals

Obama Uses Own Money to Fund Muslim Museum During Government Shutdown “Washington, DC — While up to 800,000 federal workers faced life without a paycheck as Day Two of the government shutdown kicked in, President Barack Obama held a press conference to announce that he is using his own money to open the federally funded International Museum of Muslim Cultures”

We recently published an article titled “Did James White Hack Norman Geisler’s Website?” and laid out the grounds for the assertion that White worked with members who obtained information off of Norman Geisler’s website illicitly.

Our suspicions were confirmed by several others including some of those who were skeptical of our article. However, we did manage to track down the source of the information that others were given access to, and are 110% certain that the website was indeed hacked to obtain this information.

The sad story behind this on both sides is that White relied on information that was hacked and using information gathered by Islamic extremists instead of addressing issues about Ergun Caner based on information that clearly demonstrates inconsistencies in Caner’s own stories and explanations from Caner’s own lips. White has more than enough evidence amassed against Caner without the necessity of information gathered illicitly from Islamic sources. White can attack Caner’s credibility on the merits of Caner’s own testimony without scoring “brownie points” with Muslims by relying on material they have provided.

On the other hand, even though the information was obtained unlawfully, it is now “out there”. Although we do not believe White has made a case against Geisler per se by referencing information posted on Geisler’s website (as it appears that Geisler by White’s own admission did not author the Defense of Caner, and it does not appear that Geisler maintains the website bearing his name), and that White has merely assumed a respondeat superior claim, there is clear evidence that not only have the properties of the Caner Defense been removed, but the letter itself has had several clauses altered that had previously been part of the public document.

Ironically, we sent the webmaster of the website an email about our concerns that the website may have been hacked on September 14, 2013, and on September 15, the properties of the Caner Defense were removed and no reply was given to our inquiry.

It would be hypocritical for us to “call out” our own Baptist churches regarding many of the cover ups we have seen regarding sexual abuse allegations, and not state our concerns about the Caner issue since we have sort of “stepped in it” because frankly, we just don’t like James White’s theology nor the attitude towards his sister, Patty Bonds, when she attempted to discuss her sexual abuse with him at the hands of their father. White has not responded to this and his followers write it off as “well she’s an emotionally distraught Catholic”.  As much as we despise the Roman Catholic Church, we don’t ignore claims of sexual abuse and ridicule the victim merely because they belong to a religion that we have a disdain for.  But as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and as much as it pains us to admit it, White is absolutely correct in his assessment of Ergun Caner’s dishonesty and lack of response to some serious allegations.

We have no axe to grind with Geisler or Caner. We do not agree with them on the KJVO issue, but have some common ground in our views on Calvinism and general apologetics. While we feel that because of White’s tactics and often misrepresenting his opponents views and attacking their characters has led many to be reluctant in demanding that Caner admit to his folly out of fear that it will “chalk one up” for the Reformers, even Christ told his followers that the Pharisees were right about a few things (Matthew 23:3). “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper..” (Prov 28:13), and ” a good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.” Prov 22:1.  “Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.” Romans 12:17.

Having a good name is important when involved in ministry that attracts much public attention. If the gospel is preached under known false pretenses it damages the testimony of the body of Christ. Paul stated that he kept his body under subjection lest he should become a castaway, useless to the ministry. Too many churches these days are operating under the guise that it is better to cover up sin, keep it quiet because “it will damage the church” if the matter is known (like excuses we received over Mark Chappell), rather than to come clean and let God take care of the consequences. Some refer to this as “manning up”.

So to Ergun Caner we say, “Man up”.

To James White we say, “GROW up”.

Yesterday we posted an article titled, “Where Was James White” in which we asked where was James White on the issues of the sex scandals at Sovereign Grace Ministries while he was eager to attack Ergun Caner. We also noted his sister’s blog where she implicated him in intimidating her over sexual abuse allegations she has made against their parents. White offered an audio response to this article, although he did not address the issues regarding his sister’s blog. Since James White read directly from the article on his show, we are reluctant to give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not see this.

White begins his audio broadcast by making fun of my name (“Doc Ach” as he laughed), and of course, making fun of my grammar as being “not good English” which as anyone that knows me knows that English is not my first language. But this is typical of many Calvinists who make a habit of ad hominem attacks against their opponents. And while I strive to correct spelling or grammatical errors, I do not make a habit of equating the meaning of an article with the “divine accuracy onlyism” of which White seems to be a proponent of (see his critique of Norman Geislers “Chosen But Free” rebuttal to White’s book for a list of all of Geisler’s spelling and grammatical errors).

At 4:20, White notes that this website makes no mention of his book “The King James Only Controversy” and states that he “almost fainted” in that this is the first website that is KJVO that didn’t mention his book. Well contrary to White’s inflated ego, we don’t think White’s book deserves a highlight on the front page of our website. However, we do have a section on the top of the site that is labeled “King James Defense Sites” as well as a category below that is labeled “King James Only Debate”. As superior and intelligent as White appears to be (just ask him) I almost fainted when he missed both of those obvious clues. We do however, have a section of Will Kinney’s articles of which Kinney has refuted several of White’s contentions about the KJV. (And ironically, Kinney is a Calvinist of whom even though we disagree shows more grace than James White could spell with a thousand word processors.)

We began this article with a clear statement that it may be speculation, and ended the article with “can anyone answer this?”. You would think considering the certainty in which we post the rest of our articles, that such a statement admitting that it could be speculation would be seen as an honest attempt to gather answers instead of an attack on our intelligence from the APOLOGIST (as White critiqued our term “apologeticist” as “not good English” although such a term is commonly used by others, here, here, and here.). White conceded that our assertion that he is popular “is probably true [laughing]“.

We conceded to those who left comments that there actually was no debate between White and Caner as alleged on our article, and stated that the reason we assumed there was a debate was because the You Tube link had erroneously labeled the video “Ergun Caner vs James White on Calvinism”. Nevertheless, our article was never about Ergun Caner or defending Caner. White spent much of his radio show explaining something we really don’t care about, and actually-which may come as a surprise to White-AGREE with James White on this issue that if Caner misrepresented himself as a Muslim to gain credibility among Muslims, he should “come clean”.

At 6:30, White states we should have been aware of this because we “spent hours searching the internet” for it. What we spent hours looking for was White’s response to the SGM scandal, not the Ergun Caner issue. I could almost faint that a man who often accuses KJVO adherents of having “problems with categories” that James White got this wrong and miscategorized that statement.

At 7:00, White states that our explanation of Geisler’s response to White about Caner explains why we are King James Onlyists. Again, another fallacious pejorative jab by White as there have been many King James Onlyists who did not become King James Onlyists because of their assessment of Norman Geisler’s response to White on the Caner issue. Furthermore, we did not contend that White did NOT refute Geisler, we merely contended that both parties IN OUR OPINION presented compelling responses for each of their arguments. White assumes we should have drawn a conclusion in favor of his “thorough refutation” and because we did not, that is what caused us to be King James Onlyists! With logic like this, I am surprised that White has made it as far as he has as an APOLOGIST.

No we don’t believe that White should be involved in EVERY controversy within the church, but the reason that he justified his expose of Caner was ultimately “for the greater good of the testimony of the church”. I would contend that scandals involving sex crimes in the churches present a far greater obstacle to the gospel than one person’s dishonesty about being a Muslim. I have spent countless hours on this website addressing claims of “Do Right” groups, Stuff Fundies Like, Jeri Massi’s “Blog On The Way”, “Baptist Deception” et al, over issues that have led thousands to reject Christ, embrace progressive Christianity, Process Theology, Agnosticism, Atheism, most of which revolved around the treatment of their own children or others involving sexual abuse. So you mean to tell me that Atheism is not an apologetics issue? That when thousands have claimed to have left fundamentalist Christianity because of sexual abuse in the churches, that does not merit some type of response from an apologist? I would submit that far more people have avoided Christianity as well as left Christianity over the issue of sexual abuse in the church, than the issue of Ergun Caner lying about where he was born and who he has debated.

It should also be noted that James White has devoted several hours to the issue of homosexuality on his radio show, and has taped debates with homosexual activists. So James White does appear to believe that sexual dysfunctions are relevant to apologetics, just not ones that reflect issues in his own household?

What is ironic is that in dismissing our question about White’s silence on this, not once did White state that it was an important issue that should be addressed. You would think that since such an issue was raised, White could have at least said something like “As much as I think churches should be more compassionate about this issue, and commit to greater accountability, I am really not qualified to speak on this issue”.  He simply brushed it off as “I’m not qualified to address sexual abuse” and yet James contends that he is not an expert on Islam. If you are not an expert on Islam, and yet engage in debates and write books about it, then why do you have to be an expert in sexual abuse in order to stand up and tell your Calvinist brothers that it’s wrong  and is damaging the cause of Christ?

White contends that he became involved in the Caner issue because he HAD TO, and yet White offered no evidence that Caner’s actions affected his ability to debate or witness to Muslims, nor has White shown that his credibility was affected by anything Caner did. Now White could contend that common sense would lead one to believe that such actions by Caner COULD have that effect, but certainly not enough for White to conclude that he HAD TO respond. But, that’s White’s prerogative and we won’t belabor on this issue since it wasn’t our primary concern.

White states that this is a black eye to the apologetics community who remain silent on such issues as if this is a pattern in the apologetics world when he cites only one example, Caner, of this massive cover up conspiracy that is so prevalent in the apologetics community. Again, I could almost faint at such a sweeping generalization from such a seasoned apologist. And yet the cover ups of NUMEROUS churches regarding sexual abuse which is tearing apart churches all over the world isn’t worth mentioning?

White claims that just because he is a Calvinist doesn’t mean he SHOULD have knowledge about the events at SGM, and then tells me to ‘prove it’. Well at @ the 22 minute mark of the video, White admits that he has received several emails asking him why he hasn’t gotten involved and his claim that it is “utter stupidity” that anyone should assume he has a responsibility to get involved in ministries he is not involved in. If White admits to having received emails asking the same question, then I guess we just proved it!

PETER LUMPKIN’S CHALLENGE

While we’re at it in talking about dishonesty in apologetics, one blogger,  Peter Lumpkins, noted that James White listed in several places, or at least allowed to be listed, a credential that he was teacher at Golden State Baptist Theological Seminary. First let us state that Lumpkin on one site, attributed these postings to Scott Oakland, but a comment posted as James White to us yesterday, one of which White himself referred to on his radio show as his posting, had a return email address of “droakley” so we are not sure if Oakland, Oakley are different people, or one and the same with James White.

Indeed, on the website for Columbia Evangelical Seminary, the following description is given of James White:

James R. White, D.Min.,Th.D.
Faculty Mentor

(Apologetics, Biblical Studies, Comparative Religions, Cults, Exegesis, Theology) Dr. White, an ordained Baptist minister, is Adjunct Professor teaching New Testament Greek, Systematic Theology, Christology, and Hebrew for Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary at their Arizona Campus. Here

We do note that James has a Doctorate of Ministry which would be highly irregular for there not to be some course on pastoral counseling or some type of Biblical counseling, and thus it is ironic that James would claim that he is not qualified to speak about sexual abuse. He is also  an apologist that doesn’t have a PhD which is the degree that most apologists have. Nevertheless, Lumpkins asked White to answer some questions about this issue since there appears to be no apparent record of White being a professor at said college as stated in the many references cited by Lumpkins here. Perhaps White will do another show on this issue.

DAVE HUNT

White denies that he ever had a debate with Dave Hunt. But here, is a YouTube video hosted by James White titled, “Is Calvinism Biblical?” in which White is on the phone with a person named Dave Hunt (or perhaps in studio), the man sounds like the same Dave Hunt that I have seen in many other videos, and is the only Dave Hunt I know that has publicly argued against White’s views of Calvinism. Sounds like a debate between White and Hunt to me . This is the debate that White often refers to in claiming that Hunt admitted he was ignorant of the Reformers. Apparently, being an ANTI King James Onlyist affects people’s memory!

White himself admits that Reformers are not necessarily all Calvinists, but yet when Hunt said he was ignorant of the REFORMERS, White was quick to point out that Hunt was inconsistent when he stated he probably knew more about CALVINISM than most Calvinists. Although White claims that it would be unlikely that Hunt learned as much about the Reformers as he should have to have the proper understanding of Calvinism (a claim often leveled against Non Calvinists that we don’t truly understand Calvinism unless we have a thorough knowledge of the Reformers, even though many of them disagree with each other and White never points out just WHICH Reformers we should adhere to properly understand CALVINISM), White can not claim as a certainty that Hunt did not learn as much in six months. Just because White thinks it is unlikely doesn’t mean it is impossible (although White actually made an argument for impossibility).

WHITE’S SISTER

And finally, we were given a link to a blog of a woman who claimed to be James White’s sister, which was then confirmed by White’s response to her blog in regards to Catholicism (an article in which James posts an email from supporters of his sister in which he used the term “Fr.” (Father) to refer to a Catholic priest by the name of Mitchell Pacwa.).

In these two blogs (here and here) his sister, to whom White refers to as “Mrs Bonds”, Patty (we will be courteous enough to use her first name where her own brother will not) paints a dismal picture of several years of child molestation within her home. She states in part:

I was born into the same family as my brother, James R. White. Our parents were both victims of abuse as young people. They carried those scars as people in those days did: silently. Silently, and without resolution, because no one talked about those things. You just toughed it out and did the best you could.

After spending a lengthy time working through the sexual abuse that my father subjected me to for years, I had to confront my brother with the truth.

“my brother James was hostile, defensive, and threatening. He warned me to “watch what I said” about my parents. He also made a very feeble comment about hoping he could “help me” someday”

If James White would take this kind of attitude toward his own sister about sexual abuse (perhaps because he’s “not an expert” on the subject) then in my opinion that speaks volumes about why he would be unwilling to speak out about the issues at SGM.  Now we agree with much of what White said regarding Roman Catholicism, but just because ones family member is a Roman Catholic doesn’t mean you have to throw her under the bus if in fact she was sexually abused by your father. But of course, we understand coming from a religion where God doesn’t love anybody but the elect and of whose founder enjoyed burning heretics for disagreeing with him (both Augustine and Calvin), but would you say that your response to your own sister should have at least included a little rain on the unjust?

And no Mr. White, I have never been to any of your “big conferences” because I am not willing to PAY to see a minister give a message about the Bible.

Now that we’ve corrected our minor errors from the last article, let’s see if James White corrects his!

DISCLAIMER: No vowels or consonants were harmed in the making of this article. And by the way James, is “COVENTAL” Apologetics still on sale? 

EXTRAS:

Please someone tell me, that I’m not hearing things, and that at the 9:05-9:30 mark on the audio clip, White does not sound just like Barack Obama!

The latter half of James White’s show was critiquing Michael Brown on Calvinism issues. We are going to go through this thoroughly later this week, but wanted to address one point here. White criticized Brown and agreed with Brown’s opponent about “Praying like a Calvinist” which presumes that Brown is conceding that God saves people against their will (of course, we understand that since God instills a compatibilist form of freedom within the believer according to Calvinism, White would disagree that it was actually against their will). However, on Whites’ Facebook page, he states that prayers should be offered for Dave Hunt’s wife.

If God determines all things whatsoever come to pass (according to the Baptist Confession of Faith ch 3, )then what does White expect to accomplish by asking for prayer? Now I agree that Ruth Hunt should have prayers, but not for the same reasons White’s theology would suggest. Has White now become Arminian in demonstrating that God may possibly alter an event that was predetermined!

For the Calvinist, offering prayers or telling a sinner God loves them is just a convenient lie to maintain credibility within the community so Calvinism doesn’t appear as harsh as it really is.

Our Reponse To James White is here We are leaving this mess of an article up for now as a point of reference since it is referred to in White’s response as well as ours.

UPDATE 9/7 This article will be AMENDED but not RETRACTED IN FULL due to the response offered by James White. There will be issues deleted, and issues added that James did not respond to, and of course, we will TRY (no promises :) to be more gracious in our response to James White’s video than he was with ours. We promise to use a spell checker this time before publishing the edit so that Mr. White doesn’t have a heart attack over KJVOs that misspell words.

We do note that James White repeatedly and erroneously attributed our grammatical errors and citations what we admitted in the very beginning of the article that we could be wrong about to our being King James Onlyist. As if being a King James Onlyist determines the outcome of how an article is written grammatically. 

James also neglected to respond to the comments from his sister.

We will also be adding or rather asking James White to answer the question that was posed to him by Peter Lumpkins regarding his teaching at Golden State.

We also note that James White failed to notice the articles we have hosted on here from Will Kinney that address some of White’s errors cited against the KJV since bragged that this is the first KJVO site that never mentioned his book “The King James Only Debate”. As much as we digress in catering to his ego here, we actually do have references.

White’s response to this article is here. It takes a few minutes to get passed all of his self aggrandizement before you actually get to the response so be patient. 

UPDATED: We have updated this article with new information at the bottom, and comments that give a defense of the Caner issues. We could really give 2 flipped pickled eggs about Ergun Caner’s issue, what we are concerned about is James White’s hypocrisy, and now statements made from his own sister about intimidation regarding her sexual abuse allegations against their parents.

The following may be total speculation on my part, and may be refuted at some later time, of which I will gladly retract what I am about to write, but a pattern I have noticed from James White, popularly apologeticist and debater, has become quite disturbing.

*James White debated Ergun Caner, a teacher and president at Liberty University, over the issue of Calvinism [Accordingly, this information will be amended as there has been no evidence of an actual debate. A supporter of James White erroneously labeled a video link as "Ergun Caner vs. James White On Calvinism" but it is merely excerpts of a sermon by Caner. James White claims that Caner changed the rules for the debate 12 days prior to the debate, so White canceled from fear that Caner would again change the rules hours before the debate was scheduled. I have not heard the other side of this excuse but seems to be the second or third time we have heard such excuses, ie. Peter Ruckman where White did not post the final letter sent to him by Ruckman]. In 2010, James White later went on a personal witch hunt to dig up dirt on Caner which led to a large controversy over the veracity of Caner’s testimony that he was actually raised in Turkey as a Muslim as he has claimed for several years, a matter of which 3 years later, White is still addressing [1]I have watch White’s videos on this, I have also read Dr. Norman Geisler’s exhaustive response [2] . Both sides have compelling arguments.

But what concerns me most is James White’s MOTIVE for searching out this information? James White has an extensive history of debating Muslims, and thus should have been (and likely was) aware for quite some time that Caner was also among the noted scholars that debated Muslims. Yet White’s attack on Caner seems to have come only AFTER his debate with White on Calvinism. [3]

White published a book titled “The Potter’s Freedom”, a response to Norman Geisler’s book, “Chosen But Free”, Geisler’s refutation of Calvinism. Geisler then published a video response to White’s book titled “Why I Am Not A Five-Point Calvinist” . White is now accusing Norman Geisler of covering up for Ergun Caner and demanding that Geisler remove Caner from his position in Geisler’s ministry.

White also had a debate with Dave Hunt over Calvinism, and White later accuses Dave Hunt of misrepresenting Calvinism and being dishonest about his knowledge of the Reformers. One James White support even goes so far as to accuse Dave Hunt (now deceased) of refuting Calvinism due to a Jesuit conspiracy. [4]

Now here is my question for James White.

With all the controversy that he stirred over Ergun Caner, and the amount of evidence that he amassed to argue his case, enough to demand that he resign his position, how is it that James White remains SILENT about the lawsuit and allegations against C.J. Mahaney and Sovereign Grace Ministries (“SGM”) involving the cover ups of dozens of sex crimes and abuse cases?? SGM is undoubtedly one of the most popular Calvinist movements in the United States, and several of C.J. Mahaney’s cohorts are also collegues of James White (Mark Dever, Albert Mohler, Ligon Duncan). Some of SGM’s own staff published accusations against C.J. Mahaney. [5] .

With such a high-profile lawsuit and accusations against one of the most popular Calvinist groups extant, it would be foolish to think that James White was/is not privy to these matters. And yet from what I have been able to find (or rather unable to find) is any response from James White whatsoever about the abuse at Sovereign Grace Ministries. I have spent hours upon hours scouring the internet for a response from White and have found none.

James White was eager (3 years in the running now) to oust Ergun Caner for being dishonest about where he was born and demanding that those whom he serves with in ministry denounce him, but when it comes to his own camp about SEXUAL ABUSE, James White is SILENT.

Can anyone explain this??

UPDATE: We have also learned from other sources that James White’s sister has called him out intimidating her for her allegations of sexual abuse at the hands of their parents. She states in part:

I was born into the same family as my brother, James R. White. Our parents were both victims of abuse as young people. They carried those scars as people in those days did: silently. Silently, and without resolution, because no one talked about those things. You just toughed it out and did the best you could.

After spending a lengthy time working through the sexual abuse that my father subjected me to for years, I had to confront my brother with the truth.

“my brother James was hostile, defensive, and threatening. He warned me to “watch what I said” about my parents. He also made a very feeble comment about hoping he could “help me” someday” http://abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/2009/04/out-of-darkness-cross-i-carry.html

And her follow up story here: http://abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/p/out-of-darkness-rough-draft.html

We have found at least one response from James White but does not appear to address his sisters sexual abuse allegations. What is odd though is White repeatedly refers to his sister by her married name, and as “Mrs Bonds” instead of “Patty” or “My sister” and refers to the Catholic priests he mentions as “FR” (for “Father”).