By J/A and Dr. James Ach
“And unlike abortion, gay marriage remains an act rooted in love….In the case of same-sex marriage, our work is just beginning. We must now repent of the injustices we have perpetrated on LGBT people”. Karen Swallow Prior, Gay Marriage, Abortion, and the Bigger Picture.
“WHAT INJUSTICES? Calling homosexuality sin? calling them to repentance?” James White, July 16, 2015.
This is probably the most awkward post we have ever written. It involves some major concessions toward a person that we have long held as a theological adversary. We had 27 articles on this website and a few others that ripped JD Hall of Pulpit and Pen apart, not including probably several hundred tweets between at least three of us that help with this site. It got to the point where we were attacking what JD ate for breakfast if there was something about the way he said it that was objectionable. Although JD Hall has raised a number of very important issues, we gave our tacit approval to those he attacked by contributing to his character assassination, even though we agreed with what he was saying against men in the Southern Baptist Convention. In other words, we were attacking JD Hall in the midst of his pursuing issues that we ALSO opposed. We could have taken this opportunity to also join with those who have thrown Hall under the bus, but there’s much bigger issues that Hall has raised that simply should not, can not be ignored.
Most of all, although we have never directly accused Hall (or James White) of being responsible for the death of Braxton Caner, we tied together enough circumstantial evidence to give that impression. We regret that and sincerely apologize. Moreover, we have a certain “hunch” that the facts of that “suicide” are not what the mainstream has been told. Although we can not, for legal reasons, make any public statements about our suspicions, we can say with a pretty good degree of certainty that JD Hall did NOT have anything to do with Braxton’s death and without clear and convincing evidence to the contrary it was wrong for us to give the impression that a man was guilty of murder. JD did show remorse and repentance over his interaction, but then apparently recanted. But after much reflection, what did people expect? His expression of repentance was turned into murder confession by his opponents. What person with a ministry, wife and children on the line would not defend themselves given Ergun Caner’s propensity for suing his enemies? And Hall didn’t sue those who accused him.
Do we regret Hall’s attitude? Yep. Do we still despise Calvinism? 95% (we do like street preachers like Miano, Colin Maxwell, and Chris Dean, even though we will continue to debunk Maxwell’s ideology on a regular basis 🙂 ). Will we fight over KJVO issues with Hall, and his friends, Fred Butler, James White? You bet. We are not defending JD Hall’s attitude, his brash tactics, and most of his methods (not like ours have been any better), but we do share his frustration with Christians who seem to like crab diving in sand dunes-face first. John Wesley (Non Calvinist) and Jonathon Edwards (Calvinist) still agreed together against many of the vices that plagued the church as a whole even though they had sharp differences in their theology. There will of course, always be a modicum of separation because of those differences, but we are living in a time where laws are quickly evolving that are eroding personal liberties, and we will agree with these men on those issues necessary to help insure our continued ability to preach the gospel without hindrance, at least to the extent we are able in America (although not so much in Israel for Brother Ach).
Since the recent Supreme Court decision approving sodomite marriages, cultures around the world are on a fast track to hell in a hand basket, and very few Christians are standing their ground. As much controversy as their has been between Calvinists and “Arminians” (an unfortunate designation used to describe anyone who is not a 5 Point Calvinist), the only visible fist-shakers are the fundamentalists, which include IFB, and Calvinists. What JD Hall has in his favor is that his tract record against compromisers is impressively accurate, particularly in the areas regarding Louisiana College, Brewton-Parker College and Ergun Caner, and Lifeway Christian Books, to name just a few.
This week, Hall unloaded another bomb against the the Southern Baptist Convention’s (“SBC”), Ethics and Religious Commission (“ERLC”) in an article that identified English professor at Liberty University and ERLC member, Dr. Karen Swallow Prior (“KSP”), as a gay affirming research fellow appointed to the commission by Dr. Russell Moore. We want to save room to state our own findings so we won’t rehash many of the facts already presented elsewhere, but there have been a number of other articles
excusing “defending” Dr. Prior (if you can call them defenses*), and then rebuttals offered by Hall himself, as well as James White and Robert Gagnon. We personally believe that White’s recent response has the most accurate description of the root of the problem, we are not even going to bother trying to improve on it. If you refuse to take the time to listen to this presentation, you are not qualified to defend Karen Prior! (Her crowd gets to make up their own standards, so we’re making up ours!). We apologize if you don’t get enough context here if you like to shop at one store, but we lose readers after 2,000 words, and there’s some things we really want the readers to see that will make you question Dr. Russell Moore’s sanity.
The Basic Facts Against Karen Swallow Prior. It’s Much Bigger Than We Imagined
Keep this in mind: Karen Prior is a teacher at a BAPTIST college, and a member on an ethics committee in a BAPTIST convention; a Baptist commission that has holds to a complementarian view of the home and gender roles, but of which KSP is opposed to (1). In addition to the facts already presented by Pulpit and Pen, we have the following issues against KSP:
KSP TAUGHT AT A JESUIT COLLEGE
In a magazine article where KSP opines about her opposition to nuclear weapons (not a very conservative view there, but I digress) she admits that she taught at a Jesuit college. She also refers to a Catholic priest as “Father” (See Matthew 23:9), and discusses how she started a Feminist group. The Episcopal church she attended was also a gay-affirming church.
A few years and many more abortion protests later, I was starting a local chapter of Feminists for Life, attending an Episcopal church, heading up a small private school in the inner city, teaching at a Jesuit college, and reading the poetry of Father Daniel Berrigan, the famous Vietnam-era anti-war activist who was now being arrested for protesting abortion
An article from the Feminists For Life website reveals some interesting beliefs of the foundation,
“I am a liberal. I believe in a comprehensive, government-funded social welfare network, national health insurance, more spending on foreign aid, and a reduced military budget. I am also a liberal Jew. I believe in a symbolic interpretation of the Bible and support women’s and marriage equality within Judaism.” Sharon B. Long, Metamorphosis, Feminists for Life
As of this moment, FoF is still listed on her Facebook page as a point of contact, and as far as 2012 she was still referring followers there,
In her book, “Booked”, she dedicates the third chapter, “God of the Awkward, Freckled and Strange“, to a Jesuit priest named, Gerard Manley Hopkins.
*In an article posted by Reading Acts, a “top ten” list of books are suggested by KSP to “challenge Christian thinking”. Two of these ten books, are pro-Jesuit (The Sparrow, Mary Doria Russell, and Silence, by Shusako Endo)
KSP has quite the affinity for the Jesuits.
KSP RECOMMENDS HER FOLLOWERS FRIEND PRO-GAY CATHOLICS (2)
Karen Swallow Prior retweeted Daniel Mattson
So proud of my friend,
@DanielCMattson. Follow him!
Karen Swallow Prior added,
Pope Francis: Do More To Ban Nuclear Weapons http://www.patheos.com/blogs/inebriateme/2014/12/pope-francis-do-more-to-ban-nuclear-weapons/
And apparently, KSP needs to make sure the air is clear what the Pope said about Iraq,
What Pope Francis really said about the crisis in Iraq http://www.vox.com/2014/8/19/6032981/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-the-crisis-in-iraq?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_name=share-button&utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=article-share-top … via
KSP WAS A SPOKESPERSON AND ORGANIZER FOR A CATHOLIC ABORTION PROTEST GROUP
We are glad that KSP opposes abortion. However, good works do not excuse associating with the whore of Babylon. According to Mother Jones Magazine (a Catholic publication) KSP was the spokesperson and organizer for the Catholic group, Spring of Life. KSP is currently a member of a pro-Catholic protest group called Consistent Life. This group was initially “Seamless Garment” in honor of the Pope’s “Seamless Garment Theology“.
KSP IS AN ACTIVE FEMINIST
As noted above, Karen is an active professing feminist. Although KSP attempts to reinvent classical feminism, her slant on her Christian feminist views are simply evangelical syncretism. See an excellent short article by John MacArthur exposing this. and for further detailed rebuttals, read Wayne Grudem’s, Evangelical Feminism, and the review of said book by Albert Mohler. We’re not going to spend a lot of time making a case against her feminism here as our target audience are those who should already be familiar with it, and know why there’s no place for it in a Baptist church, let alone an ethics commission. And as noted afore, the president of the ERLC himself has previously written against it.
What is disturbing about her feminism is that she associates with other feminist groups that promote humanism, such as the group she belongs to, Ladies of Liberty, of which promotes the radical Indian humanist feminist group, Nurmukta (see screenshot below, (2)).
We are going to issue a part 2 to address the pathetic excuses that have been offered in defense of KSP. Karen Prior’s actions are a perfect example of the growing danger of ecumenism creeping into the churches. KSP embraces an emergent church philosophy that is rhetorically dishonest in it’s appeal to her followers using emotional and semanitcal manipulation (which has even included her accusing JD Hall of “attacking” her because she is a woman, here and here) While she claims to oppose homosexuality (like Obama claims to support the Constitution as Hall pointed out), she gives those who identify as such (or those who attempt to merely move semantical goal posts by exchanging “gay” for “same-sex attraction”) every indication that they do not need to repent, call their sin what it is, an abomination (I have yet to see Karen refer to homosexuality as such), and disassociate from all of it’s labels, rhetoric, and those who support it. Karen uses the very language of the “LGBT community” -including their condemnations of the church- in a sort of confused approach/avoidance, ambiguous way, which gives implicit approval of their means of expression, the very means they consistently rely on to manipulate supporters, the media, and gullible Christians. Karen’s excuses have rendered passages such as 1 Corinthians 5:11 meaningless.
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
“ Abstain from all appearance of evil.” 1 Thessalonians 5:22
“ And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Ephesians 5:11
“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” 2 Corinthians 6:14-17
KSP is permitting gays to be comfortable and accepted in their lifestyle when they need to be ashamed and convicted before God-like the rest of us. Luke 13:3-5, Romans 12:20-21. God did not sit in heaven scratching His head, “Son, we need to come up with a different plan for ‘gays'”. She gives credence to the idea that the Christian witness is only meaningful if we capitulate to their nuances first, and just “play nice” (although ironically, one of her oft quoted defenders was “Turretan Fan”, a theonomist that believes in the death penalty for homosexuals. Not only is that not very “loving” but KSP herself opposes ALL forms of the death penalty, other than those defending her of course). Why does a thief, a drunkard and a murderer express shame and guilt over their sin, but a homosexual must be apologized to for having been offended by “hate speech”? Why do homosexuals get classifications that no other sin gets to have? Why isn’t criticism against chronic adulterers or serial fornicators called “hate speech”? So many anomalies among the “gay community” that Karen has no meaningful and challenging polemic for.
The modern movement to allow homosexuals into churches without repenting of homosexuality is unscriptural. Bible believers are not “homophobic” any more than they are “adulteryphobic” or “thiefphobic” or “lierphobic.” They do not hate homosexuals. They simply believe that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin before God and that men must repent of sin in order to be saved.” David Cloud, The Emerging Church and Homosexuality
Yet it is not merely KSP’s unbiblical coddling of homosexuals that is a problem, but also her associations with the biggest enemy of the church outside of the devil himself: ROME. From an admitted background in a Jesuit education system, Karen has endorsed, recommended, suggested, the works and friendship of numerous Catholics from Jesuit priests all the way up to the
antichrist pope himself. She is being used to build bridges in the ERLC and Liberty University (and among her followers and fans elsewhere) to Vatican City, and none of her followers and defenders are even blinking an eye at this. [New Addition] In fact, in 2014, Karen promoted a Catholic article that called for others to stop referring to Catholicism as a false gospel:
That is terrifying.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4
*We have already addressed one of her defenders, Rory Tyer, here, “Did Jesus Really Eat With Sinners?”
One of the recent more popular objections offered by KSP’s defenders is that she was at a Lesbian Gay Film Festival (just sit on that for about 5 seconds and carry on) to “evangelize”. What her “evangelism” consisted of was reading a chapter out of her book, “Booked”, which received quite the accolades-from pro- gays! (such as Jon Merritt) One such attendant notified us that no gospel message with a demand for repentance was given, although this person refuses to “go on record” so we will have to chalk that up as hearsay, but there has been no evidence that KSP was invited there to give the gospel, nor that she in fact, did. One has to wonder how a Christian who professes to oppose homosexuality even gets invited to such an event in the first place. Again, let that resonate: Gay and Lesbian Film Festival. I surely can’t see them inviting David Cloud, or James White, or Robert Gagnon.
We also had a Twitter war with Chris Bolt, whose view we thoroughly debunked regarding his obfuscating attempt to make James White’s debates in a mosque synonymous with Karen’s reading from a book at a gay FESTIVAL. You would think that any half witted moron could tell the difference between a FESTIVAL which is the celebration of an event or idea, and a DEBATE where the gospel is being vigorously contended and argued for against those who would probably rather chop White’s head off. Of course, we do have our own opinions about White’s Calvinism and textual issues that he presents to Muslims, but White still presents an orthodox view of the gospel, that we have to agree, would result in a persons salvation if they believed it and turned to Christ in repentance. We need to state that here because there’s going to be KSP defenders attempting to point to our other articles opposing Calvinism, White in particular, as a red herring to avoid the issues against KSP.
The screenshots I was given were of graphics that were created out of twitter snips onto a word doc. So I am simply posting what I have that contains those screenshots as I was not given the individual smaller pictures. Totally unprofessional looking, I know, sue me .
UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES
Debunking KSP’s “I Meant Different Kinds of Love” Excuse
LOVE: Karen has responded on another blog about what she meant by “gay marriage is rooted in love”. Although her defense is still gay-affirming, this is her
As far as what I meant about gay marriage being rooted in love, I never imagined that anyone who has even a mild interest in Christian theology and doctrine would be unaware of the different kinds of love. I honestly did not know that pastors (let alone so-called discernment bloggers) existed who do not know this:
First of all, if Karen wanted others to understand her sentiment as a reference to “other” kinds of love, why didn’t she just say so? I mean, if she expects theologians to understand there are different kinds of love, shouldn’t we expect an English professor to make her statements clear? Moreover, was her target audience theologians? I mean, come on, if this information is something known to theologians, must we assume that everybody is aware of the four distinctions in Greek of love? So either her target audience consisted of theologians, or she’s being rhetorically dishonest. We have to assume that as an English professor she would expect her target audience to interpret her intent in the manner in which every day English speakers would read it, not how a theologian knowledgeable in Greek would construe it.
However, even giving her the benefit of a doubt (which we are not wont to do here), which love is she referring to? because all of the “other” loves in the Bible that are related to sexual relationships are always in the context of a 1-man-1-woman relationship. So was Prior claiming that she meant gay marriage is rooted in agape (ἀγάπη) love? I would hardly think that if Karen knows anything about Greek, and the various types of love that she pawns this excuse off on, she would at least have the decency not to attribute the strongest expression of love to homosexual relationships.
Did she mean philia (φιλία) love? If that were the case, then she couldn’t have qualified a conversation about sexual relationships among gays, not even same SEX attraction, because phileo is never intended to convey the concept of attraction, not even toward male toward female and vise versa. So we know she couldn’t have meant phileo love. Plus, the comment was about MARRIAGE which kind of rules of mere friendship and “celibate committed same-sex relationships” altogether.
Did she mean storge (στοργή)? the kind of affection shown in a parent/child relationship? Awk-ward!! [squeaky voice]
And finally, eros (ἔρως), used mostly to describe passionate and sexual love, between a male and female. However, if she means eros, is she granting homosexuals permission to claim their “love” is rooted in a Biblical expression of eros? She couldn’t have meant a perverted expression of eros because that just simply doesn’t exist in the Bible. Why didn’t she clarify that she meant to express that “their acts are rooted in a misguided and misunderstood version of love”? Wouldn’t something along those lines been a little less ambiguous than “gay marriage IS an act ROOTED IN LOVE”?
Karen has shot herself in the foot with her excuse. Even taking her explanation at face value, it doesn’t clarify her position any better than it did the first time she said it without the qualification. In fact, if anything, it makes her statement even worse. However, given that she deferred to this excuse, isn’t she then obligated to state which one she meant instead of just leaving us hanging waiting for the sequel?
Nevertheless, don’t believe for a second that she really intended to say “Oh, I really meant different kinds of love”. She had every opportunity to clarify her statement the first time. She said exactly what she wanted to say by using the rhetoric of the “gay community” which is kind of obvious by the fact she also used their condemnations (that the church needs to repent of its injustices toward them, another unqualified quip).
But let’s give her a chance to clarify this blunder. Tell us Karen, if you meant “different kinds of love”, WHICH ONE?
UPDATE JULY 28, 2015
KSP retweets a gay-affirming website, Q-Ideas, who is hosting her articles
And here’s an excerpt of KSP praising the hell-rejecting Rob Bell on “Love Wins” and a few other heretics (including the pro LGBT advocate, Rachel Held Evans),