Archive for the ‘The “Do Right” Cults’ Category

Dr. James Ach
GRACE is supposedly a Christian agency that investigates abuse in Christian institutions (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment), directed by grandson of Billy Graham, “Boz” Tchividjian. GRACE recently released a 300+ page report (which I plan on commenting on at a later time) that spelled out its conclusions and recommendations for Bob Jones University (BJU) after a lengthy investigation into claims of abuse and an inappropriate response to those claims for over several years.

I have written warnings before about GRACE and had a concern that they could not be objective in their views given some of the associations they have, and now I hate to sit back and say, “I told you so”, but…

…I TOLD YOU SO

On December 17, 2014, GRACE Tweeted the following link,

“Church Sex Scandals are Rooted in Theology” – Though [sic] provoking piece for all faith communities. READ:

The article linked is titled, “Church Sex Scandals Are Rooted In Theology“. It is similar to the hit-piece written by Kurt Eichenwald in Newsweek attacking the Bible, but this one attacks a specific group of fundamentalists, mainly BJU. We are going to respond to this article separately to address the theme: that religious beliefs of fundamentalists are the CAUSE of sexual abuse in fundamentalist colleges and churches. But, what we want to point out is that the article is written by Jay Michaelson, whose website offers the following information about him:

Dr. Jay Michaelson is the author of five booksand over three hundred articles on religion, sexuality, law, and contemplative practice. He is a columnist for The Daily Beast and the Forward newspaper, and has been a professional LGBT activist and Jewish activist for fifteen years.

Jay’s books include Evolving Dharma: Meditation, Buddhism, and the Next Generation of Enlightenment, the bestselling God vs. Gay? The Religious Case for Equality, and the landmark report Redefining Religious Liberty: The Covert Campaign against Civil Rights. He founded two Jewish LGBT organizations, and has supported the work of LGBT activists worldwide at the Arcus Foundation, the Democracy Council, and his new project at the Daily Beast, Quorum: Global LGBT Voices. Jay’s activist work has been 

We attempted to contact GRACE and Boz for comment, but neither has responded. This is also not the first time we have confronted GRACE about questionable sources for their suggested articles. See, GRACE Promoting  Feminist Article

So much for GRACE being objective about their investigation and using a pro LGBT/ anti-Christian journalist as an alibi for their report on BJU. As much as I appreciate Michaelson’s zeal for the rights of the Jewish Community, his views are at great odds with the Christian, and I believe are a gross misrepresentation of fundamentalist theology.

It also does not help that director Boz Tchavidjian is thanking Rachel Held Evans for “shout-outs” on CNN.

Thank you for the shout out on . Very kind.

(Rachel Held Evans has been under scrutiny for quite some time by conservatives and fundamentalists for her acceptance and endorsement of so-called “Christian Gays”.)

If GRACE has changed their position on homosexuality, then of course, this becomes a different debate, although I’m sure that’s information that BJU and many other fundamentalist schools would like to have known prior to allowing GRACE to investigate and write recommendations, some of which included criticizing the theology of the subjects they investigated. Although one has to wonder whether GRACE was there to help with suggestions and recommendations on handling abuse (including legal proceedings and potential assistance in prosecutions for validated allegations of crimes), or to preach to BJU and fundamentalists about their doctrine, one certainly has to question where this apparent sentiment and cooperation is coming from with LGBT advocates.

To repeat what I said on SI to a question as to why this is a ‘big deal’:

I am not BJU’s biggest fan. But I don’t like seeing ANY fundamentalist (or professing fundamentalist) college having their community described in such a bias way by the LGBTs and anti-Christians. There was (and is) enough of that with the BJUnity and DRBJU nonsense. So yes, it is a big deal and a real controversy because it is articles like this that are allowing the gay community to write the book of public opinion on modern churches that they don’t believe are tolerant enough so now the only acceptable response is to change what you believe, because it is what you believe that is causing the “discrimination”. Furthermore, since the gay voice is being used as a *Daniel Trap against Christians, I would think the more unchecked say-so they are given to define fundamentalism the more dangerous they become.

I am convinced that groups like GRACE are going to be used as a tool to spy on fundamentalist colleges and churches as well as intimidate them into accepting the LBGT agenda and jettison their fundamentalist beliefs just as much as LGBT activist groups are doing from the outside of the churches, and churches need to take a stand NOW before these groups succeed in silencing them and making their views a crime in America.

*******

For more excellent articles on this topic, see David Cloud’s, The Emerging Church And Homosexuality, and What Rights Will Others Lose When Homosexuals Gain Their Rights? . And as much as it pains me to say this, James White and Michael Brown have challenged numerous LGBT advocates to moderated public debate, and they have raised several compelling issues as to why the debate needs to be had as well as identifying numerous key issues that demonstrate the fallacious nature of the LGBT presuppositions, particularly in regards to the question, can you be gay and be Christian? So far, no LGBT advocate has taken them up on their challenges.

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*Daniel Trap (from Daniel chapter 6) is when a particular party conspires against a person or community because of their beliefs, and seeks to change the laws in order to “catch” them violating those laws so they can then throw them to the lions. It’s a form of deliberate political entrapment.

And on a side note, this article was also retweeted by the Calvinist “Anons” (Christian Janeway or “Calvinist Janeway”) , of the “TAC ANONS” cyber-harassment group. Like she said, “Know Your Anons”. Yep, we sure do. GraceLGBT - Copy

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blameA contributor on the SFL site made the following comment:

This whole conversation seems to support something I have noticed for a while since leaving fundamentalism: many former Fundies brought the attitude and spirit of fundamentalism with them when they left, i.e, hatred, anger, arrogance and believing if you don’t agree 100% with them, then you are an enemy.

It is an attitude that is held throughout all of the antifundamentalist groups: that the IFB made them who they are. The IFB forced them to become bitter, full of “hatred, anger, arrogance” because the “spirit of fundamentalist” overpowered their will.

Something that I have noticed within fundamentalism is that a person that was an angry person while they were a fundamentalist, continues to be an angry person when they leave fundamentalism. It is ironic how often they accuse Baptists of “blaming victims” and then they blame everyone but themselves for how they act.

It is not the “spirit of fundamentalist” that causes an ex-fundamentalist to be “arrogant”. You are an arrogant person BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ARROGANT PERSON.

Yet this is nothing new to history. When Eve at the fruit, she blamed the serpent. When God confronted Adam, he blamed Eve.

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” Genesis 3:12

Notice how the subject went from Adam to “the man said”. Sin was now a problem that would affect all of his posterity. And with the infection of sin, came with it the denial of culpability for ones actions.

And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper? Gen 4:9

Those who left fundamentalism carried with them their own self righteousness, and continue to act out of their own self righteousness. They are by far, better than any “fundy” they will ever meet again, and will relentlessly assassinate the character of all fundamentalists to prove it.

Sure there are a small handful of Baptist leaders who have executed their own self righteousness and pleasured themselves at the expense of others, but when I hear someone who makes such broad brush accusations against Baptists on how self righteous, angry, resentful, hateful and arrogant they are, I can’t help but think “Those people are not in the church anymore. You can find them all at the Stuff Fundies Like and Do Right websites”!

We all have an innate desire to be right, recognized, and revered(pride). This is why you see such personal attacks offered by the “Do Right” and SFL crowds and those like Darrell Dow who disguise their vitriol as satire. They have a desire to be right about their accusations without any regard for what the truth is or simply admitting they don’t know. Arguments like this on forms are common, where the commenter is defending a position that he/she claims to be right about, and rather than risk the embarrassment of being wrong,  begins ad hominem attacks against their opponent. That strong desire to be right fears exposure, flees truth, and blames others, and avoids discussions about the Bible because there’s a chance that the sword (Heb 4:12) may lay their motives wide open.

The Jews used to have a saying, “The fathers have eaten a sour grape and the children’s teeth are set on edge”. Ezekiel 18:2. Psychology still uses this today. Because your parents ate sour grapes, you became a rebel and anything you do is not sin because it’s really your parents fault. Because Mrs Doe didn’t shake your hand at church, she hates you and is avoiding you on purpose because your shoes don’t match. The preacher was bad so it’s his fault that I act like a heathen.

To this God replies:

As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

If I mistreat my wife and say something unkind, it’s MY fault, not hers. If I lose my temper and yell at my children, it’s MY fault, not theirs. If I had an argument in church and am still upset about it, and take it out on a co-worker, it’s MY fault, I sinned. There are times when I get into heated debates with my own brothers and say things I should not say. Is it their fault for provoking me? Doesn’t matter, I am responsible for my reaction, AND SO ARE YOU.

The “spirit of fundamentalism” did not cause you to be angry, hateful and arrogant: YOU DID. If you never set foot again in another Baptist church, you will still have the same problem: YOU.

Although this article is directed at a particular audience, don’t think that any of the rest are exempt from this. I have been equally guilty of blaming someone or something else for something I did and I’m sure many readers have as well. But if you are a Christian, then you know the misery of living in denial of your responsibility for your own actions. It is a cancer that causes the emotional responses we see from the antifundamentalists, and a response that will destroy your marriage, your family, and your friendships, and your fellowship with God.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

J/A

tree hugIn a rare appearance on her own group page (she has a habit of starting groups and then not paying attention to them), Jocelyn Zichterman, the woman who “fired God”, wrote the following for a topic discussion:

Another topic: Do we die and go to the “kingdom of heaven”? Or are we living ON the kingdom of heaven? If you conclude we die and GO TO the kingdom of heaven, you would surmise (potentially) that we shouldn’t give a F*** about this earth we live on. But if you understand we’ve been given this planet by God/s, then you surmise that we must CARE FOR this planet (yes?). What were you taught and how has it altered your view of “Going Green” and what that means to the human race? [profanity edited by us]

At first I thought she may have simply switched religions and went from her old Baptist roots to Catholicism and was attempting to start a discussion on Dominion Theology, but then I noticed that “God/s” was plural, so considering the degree of which atheism has been promoted in her group, and the amount of Christians being banned from the group, perhaps maybe Wiccan? [1][2]

I thought, Joc just wants to have a pow-wow about tree hugging, she doesn’t really mean let’s all go green. But then just when I thought she could have accused the Baptists of everything from cereal that gets too soggy too soon, to stores that can’t sell helium for balloons anymore, she made this grandiose claim:

I understand what both of you are saying. That’s why I brought this up. We have to rally together as a nation/world and enable everyone to “go green” or it will never happen. Just thoughts to chew on — but it’s a new day — and if we all talk about our childhoods and how they indoctrinated us to HATE this earth, well, we can be the ones to inform the masses — so LASTING change can finally be made. If we don’t understand how to take care of the place we live on — then how in the Gods name can we be entrusted to care for anything else? [emphasis added]

Now I must admit, THAT’S a new one! So now to add that Baptists subjugate and objectify women, teach members to abuse children, we can add “indoctrinating us to hate this earth” to the list.

I get that spending quality time with abortion proponent and Democratic National Committee spokeswoman, Debbie Wasserman broken-branchSchultz, may have went to her head (the Dems have a time of it promoting Al Gores Green Agenda), but to go full Shirley Maclaine on the Baptists with the absurd notion that our children were taught to hate the earth?

I’ve listened to a lot of preachers in my life, read hundreds of books written by Baptists, and spent countless hours watching videos of sermons and lectures by Baptist preachers, and I don’t remember in my childhood or church experience ever being taught that my enemy was the earth, the flesh and the devil.

Shame on the Baptists for not taking the earth’s feelings seriously and for minimizing and covering up abuse of the trees. Perhaps she can get “shoot Baptists on site” added to the Biodiversity Treaty (signed by Clinton in ’99) if their children are found in a tree house made from endangered wood.

DISCLAIMER

No trees, grass, or leaves were harmed in the publishing of this article, it was completely electronically produced from a computer made with recycled plastic.

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See also “The Fruit of Jocelyn Zichterman’s “I Fired God”=Atheism

408493_261951307269644_1604332539_nIt’s not enough that Darrell Dow of Stuff Fundies Like to encourage marijuana usage on his site that claims to help survivors of “IFB abuse” in a post that generated over 150 likes on Facebook (the most on his page this year), but today he posts an excerpt from Baptist Evangelist Allen Domelle criticizing Domelle’s admonition to be careful of doubt. [1]

This is what Domelle said:

You must understand that one of the greatest tools Satan uses is unbelief. If he can get you to simply doubt, then he can win the battle. God is a God of absolutes. God does not want us to live in a world of unbelief. God plainly tells us in His Word what is right and wrong. You must be careful that you don’t allow unbelief to cloud your judgment and miss the blessings of God.
–Allen Domelle

This comment was preceded by Stuffed Undies Like founder Darrell Dow’s quip:

So much for doubt being part of faith, I guess.

As I have stated in an article before on this site, Darrell wouldn’t know a Bible verse if it cooked him dinner, and this is just more evidence of the blundering attempts that Darrell makes to vilify Baptists. Hard to believe he wrote a book called “Fundamental Flaws” of the IFB churches and “how to fix them” when he can’t even accurately define something as simple as faith and unbelief.

Darrell seems to equate the Bible’s recording of statements by those who expressed unbelief or doubt as a Biblical endorsement for a lack of faith. Nevertheless, Darrell’s quote itself is erroneous on its face. It’s like arguing that darkness is necessary for the existence of light. Darkness is the absence of light, light is not the cause of darkness. Unbelief is the result of not believing. Faith is not the cause of unbelief. Faith cures doubt, but the presence of doubt is not necessary for their to be belief. For me to believe that my car is sitting in my garage does not require me to doubt that it is not.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Romans 3:3

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

But with a name like Dow, I can see how someone with his lack of spiritual insight can confuse such a theory with Taoism (pronounced Dowism, ironically!) and it’s yin and yang concept.

Which Way Did He Go, George?

Which Way Did He Go, George?

What does the Bible have to say about doubt and unbelief?

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Matthew 14:31

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 3:18-19

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:11

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear. Romans 11:20

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Romans 11:23

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:58

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:23

And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. Luke 12:29

Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. Acts 10:20

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 1 Timothy 2:8

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. Mark 16:14

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

It’s pretty pathetic  when someone becomes so desperate for fodder against Baptists they are willing to take statements of preachers encouraging others to have faith in God and turn them into satire.

icon_monkey

Atheism?

Jocelyn Zichterman writes of her “experience in the IFB cult” in a book titled, “I Fired God”, and runs a Facebook page called, “Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors”.

Without going into detail about Jocelyn’s claims to have been an advocate appointed by the FBI to assist victims, or her communist beliefs that government should mandate policies in churches and Bible colleges, let us just show you the type of fruit that her group produces:

What I’ve learned while studying atheism: Atheism is widely misunderstood, even by some of those who claim to be atheist. Its not that I can prove there is no god. Its more like I’ve seen the “evidence” for your god and have found it to be woefully insufficient. This world functions exactly the same with your god in charge as it would if we were simply highly evolved primates with no divine creator. If you claim that there is a god who not only created this world, but also cares about what happens in this world, about what gender I am, about whom I love or in what position I love them, you have an insanely high burden of proof. It is not on me to prove that God doesn’t exist. It is on you to prove he exists and cares what I do. (Two different cases) Please note – the Bible is not evidence. Church Father’s are not evidence, random claims of creation instead of evolution are not evidence. You may believe god exists by faith, as faith acknowledges there is no evidence, but do not come to me with faith and call is evidence. Only after coming away from Christianity and freeing myself from the mental slavery and suspension of disbelief, have I been able to find real healing. For me, surviving the IFB cult has required a return to reason, scientific process and a life that is firmly anchored in the here and now. I don’t believe based on faith, I follow the evidence and the evidence thus far leaves me with no other conclusion than there is no god. (all credit for non-original thought goes to Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Pen Gillette and others whose name I have forgotten)
Donna Jefferson I, too, have found solace and peace in atheism. You will be attacked for your views, scripture will be quoted, and outrage will be expressed but I appreciate your courage and conviction.
Rachel Raub I am glad you got out and I am glad you found what works for you. ……Rachel Raub Signed: Stereotypical Loudmouthed Feminist.
Elizabeth Niederer Bummer, can’t find it. In any case, the guest was an eminent scientist and provided some pretty compelling-sounding arguments for behaviors we consider to be uniquely human, such as demonstrations of altruism, ethical or moral principles, being far more widespread and NOT tied to religion or philosophy. 

Gee, if monkeys can treat one another well, one might think non-religious humans could do the same eh? *eyeroll*
Sharon Cooney I identify as a Humanist, and I suspect there are a few here who are as well, but don’t realise it. I do not accept that there is any kind of deity to be feared or judged by. I live by the Golden Rule, and encourage others around me to as well – without shoving it down anyone’s throat (each to their own). Common decency, respect for your fellow human (including those who are mentally bound by dogma), respect for the earth, respect for other living things (yes, I eat meat because we are omnivorous beings) so there is hope for a better future for our descendants has absolutely nothing to do with any god, or any religion. I am a free thinker. I believe back in the day I may have been called “one of those long haired hippies”, and I reckon I would have agreed whole-heartedly.
Michael Holt What made me denounce Theism? I faced the fact that if I used the same line of reasoning that I used to reject a belief in foreign gods, that I would have to give up mine too. In Science, we have something called the Null Hypothesis. Its what we use to test the natural world. If a hypothesis can not be proven true, then it is to be rejected and considered false. Yahweh, as well as other foreign gods, is credited for scientific claims in the bible, that we now know is false. That means that an all knowing creator God could not have inspired the bible writers to write what they wrote. Debunk the Creation myths? Then the God of that myth must not exist. What I found when I spoke to others about this? Is that they would make special pleadings and logic leaps to justify and excuse these falsehoods. And what happens when the bible makes a false scientific claim? Christians just twist it and make it symbolic or poetic or something else. But here is the thing. Under Null Hypothesis? I don’t have to prove negatives. I have to prove positives. I can still reject theistic claims and logically conclude that there is no rationally justified reason to believe in one. Which by default? Still made me an Atheist.
Joel Erickson As far as stealing being wrong regardless of whether or not someone else sees you, there’s this thing called empathy that allows people to place themselves in the shoes of another individual to try to share their experiences. Empathy requires no supernatural explanation.

As far as your passive-aggressive description of people sending themselves to Hell, you are reinforcing the concept that the relationship with a god and the relationship abusers have with the people they abuse is very similar.

People who are abused are asking for it.

People who abuse have no choice; their inability to control themselves is the fault of the person or people they abuse.

Do these comments sound like a deity you know of?
David Piper Something similar started me on the path to Atheism.The question that could not be answered by any fundie Christian I know: “Why would a (supposedly) loving god allow fully 2/3rds of the world’s population (non Christians of ANY variety) to perish?
Translation Errors Have ALWAYS Brought Harm To Women
Ryan Dillingsworth Now its my turn to say “what the f are you talking about?” Did you even look at the whole post – women are actually being stoned to death, enslaved, and all sorts of shit around the world (and even maybe at a few IFB “wayward girls” houses) and actually do need advocates – the point is to point out the difference between this and those that run around making an issue out of every little thing like getting asked out for coffee or people using “gendered” language turning everyone into enemies of one another, etc etc. ……… and no way am I a Neo-Con phony like Rush L.
We are the founders of Peaceful Parenting, Atheism, and Anarchism. If you are an atheist, anti-theist, voluntaryist, libertarian, anarchist, and into peaceful parenting.. please add us. J
Mark D Young Many Christians don’t want to deal with mental illness. They want to believe we have a soul located inside our chest, and what happens with our bodies or brains should have no effect on us, if we just “get right with the lord”
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You get the picture. This is the results of what happens when you attempt to create groups out of spite, revenge and hate.
We have addressed Skepticism here (article from Norman Geisler) and will address some of the silly logic used in some of the above comments to defend atheism. We don’t spend a great deal of time dealing with atheism because only a fool says there is no God. But for the faint-hearted who we find occasionally that truly believe some of the ridiculous presuppositions set forth by atheists and agnostics, we add 2 cents now and then.
This is in response to an email challenging us to prove that these groups produce atheists as we stated in other articles. This is only a very small handful of comments and posts from that site, and many of the members of this group are also members of the other “Do Right” groups as well.
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Matthew 22:34
When the Pharisees saw that Jesus had out-witted the Sadduccees, they attempted to band together in a unified effort to trap Jesus. The professing Christians among these groups have adopted the same philosophy: band together with other groups even if they don’t share our views for the sake of a common cause. Even though the common cause has the appearance of pursuing legitimate concerns, God is just as concerned about the means  (2 Samuel 6:1-7) as He is the end (Eccl 7:8). And Christians who think that they can mingle with heathen and not learn their ways are fooling themselves (Psalm 106:35, 1 Cor 15:33). The above evidence of such attempts is a painful reminder of that fact.
But just a few thoughts for the atheist to ponder:
*No atheist has ever successfully explained the origins of the universe. While they claim that creation is not scientific, not even the laws of science allow for the great leaps of faith that it takes to believe in evolution or that order came from chaos. Evolution is still called the ‘THEORY” of evolution which is contrary to the terms that science gives to what it believes it can prove (the LAW of thermodynamics, the LAW of gravity, etc..).
Not only has atheism failed to explain the origin of the universe, but if their own theory of order from chaos is true, or a “Big Bang” caused creation, or massive gasses randomly created complex DNA structures that led to intelligent life, where did the Big Bang come from and from whence did all of the gases come from? Some argue that they have always existed which flies in the face of their argument of the impossibility of an eternally existent God. If gases can exist for an eternity, then why not God!
*No atheist has successfully explained the innate desire of man to wish to be good and respect each other. Atheists attempt to argue (as they did in comments above) that apes can be taught to be friendly, but that’s the difference, animals have to be taught, humans do not. Every human being has a sense of morality and atheism has no adequate explanation for the origin of man’s conscience.
*Atheism has never been able to adequately provide a link between fossil records.
*While atheism argues against faith to believe in creation, they themselves will not admit to the amount of faith it takes to NOT believe there is a God or faith needed and lack of evidence for the theories proposed for evolution.

 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20.

Melissa1                                               Melissa Fletcher is the sister of Jocelyn Zichterman, and moderator for their group page

JZ1

We reported on the issue of BJU staff member, Joseph Bartosch being fired here in our article “Why Fundamentalists Don’t Listen To Our Critics” but it needs its own article because of the sheer hypocrisy and double standards applied to the matter by Do Right Notables, Jeffrey Hoffman and Cathy Harris.

The crux of the matter is that Joseph Bartosch was terminated from BJU after 20 years of employment after BJU was “tipped” about a conviction he had 20 years prior for soliciting a prostitute.

Jeffrey Hoffman, BJUnity founder and “Do Right BJU” contributor, among others, are now criticizing BJU for firing Joseph Bartosch. One reader on his page noticed the hypocrisy and double standard and posted this”

Eric G. Wood Just a quick question, regardless of the motivation behind their actions, why does it appear that they are getting grief again for “doing the right thing?”

Exactly! Bingo. Over the plate, waste high.

Jeffrey states in this thread: 

Jeffrey Hoffman Eric, I wouldn’t say that BJU did the right thing at all. They publicized Joe’s being let go and have basically admitted that they didn’t do a background check. (Personally, I don’t believe that, but that is irrelevant). They did not protect their students and they have not followed the law. Letting Joe go was the right thing to do. It didn’t need to be publicized. But BJU made it public. Why?

Jeffrey Hoffman is now saying BJU did not do the right thing by publicizing it.

HOLD THE HORSES BACK.

On March 23, Jeffrey posted on this thread:

I want to know why this easy-to-construct chronology is not what is being shared with the media. What are you hiding, BJU?

Joseph Bartosch Facts
1982 05 00 — Graduated BJU as Speech Ed

1991 03 15 — Court Filing Date of Prostitution conviction https://services.saccourt.ca.gov/indexsearchnew/CaseNumberList.aspx?SearchValues=BARTOSCH%2CJOSEPH%2CJOHN%2C2079228

1991 03 26 — Arraignment

1994 04 20 — Probation ended.

1994 06 07 — Filed to start Sacramento Preparatory Academy

2001 08 00 — Assumes Staff GA over Perf Hall while he pursues MA in Dramatic Production while “on sabbatical” from SPA.

2002 05 00 — Bartosch appears in the yearbook as a Graduate Assistant from Sacramento, CA.

2002 05 01 — Played Antigonus in Winter’s Tale

2005 08 00 — Returns to BJU for a MS in Counseling.

2006 05 00 — Listed as a GA from Greenville, SC. Masters in Biblical Counseling.

2006 11 15 — Vincentio in Taming of the Shrew

2007 05 00 — Not listed in the yearbook.

2007 05 02 — Lord Chief Justice in Henry IV

2007 00 00 — Successfully defended his EdD diss in Curriculum and Instruction with proficiencies in biblical counseling, communications, and theology

2007 08 00 — Manager of IT.

2008 04 30 — Duke of Exeter in Henry V

2008 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2009 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2009 11 18 — Jaggers in Great Expectations

2010 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2010 12 06 — Dean of Distance Learning.
http://www.greenville.com/news/bju0111.htmlhttp://www.sermonaudio.com/new_details3.asp?ID=27925
http://web.archive.org/web/20120201160141/http://www.bju.edu/news/2010-12-06-dean-distance-learning.php
Bob Jones University announced today the appointment of Dr. Joseph Bartosch as Dean of Distance Learning. Reporting to Dr. David Fisher, Provost, Dr. Bartosch is responsible for the further development of BJU’s online education program.

2011 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2011 11 16 — Solinus in Comedy of Errors

2011 12 17 — Marries Christina Davis

2012 05 02 — Brabantio in Othello

2012 05 00 — Appears in the yearbook as an Administrator, “Dr. Joseph Bartosch, Dean of Distance Learning.”

2012 12 00 — Appointed Chief Branding Officer

This information gathered by Jeffrey was then reposted on Chuckles Travels and several other websites.

First of all, Jeffrey criticizes BJU for making Bartosch’s firing public WHEN HE POSTED THE MAN’S ENTIRE LIFE CHRONOLOGY ON LINE FOR ALL TO SEE.

Jeffrey later stated:

This is what happens when you let your alumni do your background checks instead of doing them yourself.
Of course, rumors abound that BJU administrators have long known about this man’s history; they just didn’t think it was a big deal.

So according to Jeffrey, BJU never thought it was a big deal, so keeping Bartosch on staff would be the “no big deal” part, but then criticizes BJU for firing him?

Secondly, Jeffrey criticized BJU for covering up the matter, (“what is BJU trying to hide”) and therefore since the entire matter was made public BY JEFFREY, what did he expect BJU to do? Jeffrey assisted in the PUBLIC dissemination of this information about Bartosch, and then criticizes BJU for giving a public response??

This is has got be some of the most ridiculous, hypocritical, deceitful, double-forked tongue tactics I have ever seen that demonstrate some people are willing to do anything in order to promote their agendas.

And to make matters worse adding fuel to the fire, Cathy Harris offers a story to explain how Bartosch could have had his charge reduced to a lower charge in order to explain why Bartosch was only charged with a misdemeanor.

NEWSFLASH CATHY: when charges are reduced, they are reduced to a LESSER INCLUDED OFFENSE. Soliciting a prostitute is not a lesser included offense of rape, or any other sex crime. Lesser included offense would be like dropping rape down to sexual deviant conduct or murder down to aggravated assault or reckless homicide. You can’t take a charge of arson and drop it down to jay-walking. This is the law in every state.

As we stated on our previous thread about this matter, the Do Right crowd painted this as a sex abuse case, even calling the prostitute a victim. While we certainly do not condone soliciting a prostitute, even though there was no actual ACT performed (to LOOK upon a woman with lust is adultery, so Biblically, there doesn’t need to be an overt act) it was sinful, but was NOT a sex crime that had a victim. The woman Joseph Bartosch was charged with soliciting was receiving payment for sex which she willingly chose to do.

Furthermore, Jeffrey’s search that revealed his chronology was done in 2013. Big difference in searches that were available in 2013 than in 1991, and considering the “world wide web” was not released until 1989 with the first website being launched in 1990, and the release of “Windows” in 1995, it is HIGHLY doubtful that BJU would have obtained the same results that Jeffrey obtained in 2013.

I am not a fan of BJU as we have an enormous disagreement over the KJV issue, but I do not like seeing a fundamentalist institution, even one I don’t agree with, vilified by deception and pejorative rhetoric. As we said in our article before this one, this is one huge reason why we don’t pay attention to the blathering of our critics.

_____________________

And by the way, Trisha Lacroix who also opined on Jeffrey’s page, has a lot of nerve criticizing anyone for failing to be honest on an application when she told her employers that she had a marketing degree from Hyles Anderson College. View Evidence Here.

[UPDATED 3/15/13 With verification of certificate status]

BJUnity is a website with Jeffrey Hoffman as its “Executive Director” whose claimed goal is “an affirming alternative for lgbt alumni and students of Bob Jones University”. [“lgbt” stands for “lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender”]. Jeffrey Hoffman is also a regular contributor to Do Right BJU and submits comments on numerous anti-fundamentalist websites.

On March 11, 2013, Jeffrey made slanderous accusations that Elisha Weismann, Dr James Ach and Jerry Kaifetz were the same person in response to an article written that demonstrated he was supportive of the Islamic religion. After contacting Facebook about the accusations and the photos he posted on his page, Facebook removed the references on his page.

When someone goes out of their way to slander us (and by “us” we mean anyone associated with DRC. Jerry Kaifetz is not associated with any of the Do Right Christian ministries or websites) on a personal level when they can’t hold a debate about religious issues that are the topic of a discussion, sometimes we do a little of our own checking, and we have some questions about BJUnity. We are not insinuating anything here, but just seeking some answers that perhaps we overlooked in our investigation of BJUnity.

BJUnity claims to be a “Not-For-Profit Incorporation” (“EXH A” below) and has a Donation Tab at the bottom of their website.

Just for review, here are the New York State laws for not-for-profit incorporations.

Upon a search, we could not find a Federal Tax ID# (“EXH B”).

We could not locate a profile on Guidestar (“EXH D”). Guidestar is a company where a corporations IRS 990 forms can be viewed. If you are not familiar with them, we have posted a picture below (“EXH C”) of G.R.A.C.E. (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment) to show what a non-profit organization’s Guidestar profile looks like.

 

If Jeffrey or someone that works for BJUnity can fill in the gaps here, we’ll wait for a response before we make a conclusion based on our research.

EXH ABJU1

EXH BBJU2

EXH CGRACE3

EXH DBJU4

EXH E

BJUnity gave the following response:

To whom it concerns:

BJUnity is a not-for-profit charitable organization, incorporated in the State of New York in June 2012.

Our application for federal 501 (c) (3) status is in process.

A Few things to address about this:

1) *REMOVED Upon Verification Certificate.

DOS ID #: 4258642

2) If they admit that their application for 501 (c)(3) status is “in process” then it is not yet a true not-for-profit organization that should be collecting donations under that guise.

3) Has BJUnity told their donators that their charitable gift is not tax deductible until their 501 (c)(3) status is approved?

4) BJUnity appears to be founded in the middle of 2012, yet there is nothing on your website that advises potential donors that your 501 (c)(3) status is pending, or when you applied for it which would be important considering that it normally does not take 9 months for approval.

[Jeffrey Hoffman is the founder of BJUnity and regular contributor to the Do Right BJU Facebook page.] Giving Jeffrey Hoffman the benefit of a doubt that he may have been drunk when he posted the excerpt we are about to discuss*, I was quite surprised to see how Jeffrey seems to be totally oblivious to Islamic beliefs and practices.

On or about March 9, 2013, Jeffrey posted a cartoon of American’s claiming that not all Muslims are hateful, with a Muslim replying not all Christians are hateful. [1]. Jeffrey made it clear that he had Muslim friends that read his “wall” and that Islam should not be insulted. And then, Jeffrey stated this comment:

Do you know that Muslims are awaiting the second coming of JeSus? That Mohammed prophesied that Jesus would return?

This type of misunderstanding of the true nature of Islam has helped put American’s to sleep about not only Islam’s history but about their true intentions regarding “The Great Satan”, America.

ALLAH HAD NO SON

Islam does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, nor do they believe that He was ever crucified. Islam argues that Allah ” is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. How can He have children when He has no wife? He created all things and He is the All-Knower of everything.” (emphasis added). Surah 6:101. And in Surah 23:91 the Quran reads, “Say not that Allah begat a son”.

Islam believe that Jesus Christ (Isa) was no more than just a prophet like Moses. He was neither God nor the Son of God.

WHO IS ISLAM EXPECTING TO RETURN?

Islam awaits the “12th Imam”, or the Al-Mahdi. Some Muslims believe this Imam was born in 869 AD and never died but was hidden by Allah. Nevertheless, it is common among all sects of Islam that the Imam will be the final prophet that restores order and the rule of Allah upon the world.

This Imam must also be a descendant of Mohammed. Since Arabs come from the lineage of Hagar, it would be impossible for Jesus Christ to meet the criteria of becoming the 12th Imam.

In fact, if you look at the beliefs of Islam about the 12th Imam, it is strikingly similar to the rule of the antichrist in Revelation:

  • He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima
  • Will have a broad forehead and pointed nose
  • Will return just before the end of the world
  • His appearance will be preceded by a number of prophetic events during 3 years of horrendous world chaos, tyranny and oppression (see Revelation 13:5 and Daniel 9:25-27)
  • Will escape from Madina to Mekkah, thousands will pledge allegiance to him
  • Will rule over the Arabs and the world for 7 years (see Daniel 9:27)
  • Will eradicate all tyranny and oppression bringing harmony and total peace (See Daniel 8:25)

Jesus Christ does not return as a prophet.

Jesus Christ returns as the Lord of lords and King of kings. Revelation 17:14. When Jesus Christ returns, He returns WITH His bride (Revelation 19:1-9) not another prophet.

When Jesus returns He establishes a JEWISH rule where He reigns from the throne of David from JERUSALEM, not Mecca  or Medina. Revelation 3:12, Isaiah 9:7, Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30.

Therefore it is clear that the Imam that Islam awaits is not the Jesus of the Bible.

JIHAD IS FUNDAMENTAL TO ISLAM

While many attempt to portray Islam as a religion of peace, Holy Jihad is a fundamental foundation for ALL of Islam regardless of what sect it is.

Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] until they pay Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Surah 9:29

Fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and polytheism, worshiping another god besides Allah] and the religion will be for Allah Alone. Surah 8:39.

Find and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war). Surah 9:5, Ali Translation.

Islam has demonstrated repeatedly that peace is not in their interest, but the total annihilation of Israel and the Americans.

ANY APPEARANCE OF PEACE FROM ISLAM IS ONLY TEMPORARY, THE QURAYSH DOCTRINE

Islam only gives the appearance of peace when it is expedient for them to do so. History has proven this to be a staunch fact (Oslo Accord, for example).

Islam employs what is known as the “Quraysh Method” which is based on the event where Muhammad permitted his friend, Amar Ben Yasser, to deny his allegiance to Allah when he was captured by the Quraysh tribe to avoid torture.

Since the Quraysh incident, lying is acceptable in Islam if it offers an advantage over ones enemy.

Saddam Hussein used this reasoning with President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. Mubarak visited Saddam in Baghdad the day before Iraq invaded Kuwaitt. Hussein promised Mubarak there would be no invasion of Iraq. Iraq invaded Kuwait while Mubarak was in transit to Cairo.

Know this that lying is not sin by itself, but if it brings harm to you it could be ugly. However, you can lie if that will keep you from evil or if it will result in prosperity. Abi Hamid Al Gahazali, Ehia Al-owlom Al-Den [A Revival of the Religious Books] (Cairo, Egypt: Maktabet al-Turas, 1971), pp 3, 137.

Thus any Muslim that attempts to give the appearance of friendliness is merely doing so because it is fundamental to their belief system that they need to “lay low” until they are in a position to “strike the enemy”. History has proven time and time again that ALL Islamic nations have taken advantage of opportunities to exploit Israel, America, and Christian interests by breaking treaties and capitalizing on any chance given (or taken) to further the cause of Islam toward total world domination.

Islam began as a religion created by the sword upon anyone that did not pledge allegiance to Mohammed and the Moon god of Arabia (Allah), and Islam intends to finish that way, too.

Foolish ignorance of the true nature of Islam and sympathy for the doctrines held by the sworn enemies of Israel, Christianity and the Americans has not only led to lopsided politics, but will ultimately lead to God cursing the American nation (Gen 12:3) and allowing Islam to continue it’s clandestine plots to destroy its enemies.

With Iran’s push to obtain nuclear weapons, it is not a question of IF they will use these weapons on America, but WHEN. One would think that September 11, 2001 would serve as a permanent reminder of that fact, and those who believe that any part of Islam can be separated from the acts of 911, or the AMERICAN Muslim Sergeant that shot up an Army base, or bomb targets that were planned in American Mosques,  are deceiving themselves.     

_______________________________

*Jeffrey Hoffman 15 hours ago: “That moment when you realize that having drunk an entire chalice worth of the consecrated wine, you are officially drunk on Jesus….” “Too much was left over… and I am not as think as your drunk I am.” ” Bob Jones can kiss my ashes.”

Jeffrey Hoffman has responded to this article’s question saying “The answer is no”. So then we have re-worded the question as “So does Jeffrey Hoffman support the RELIGION that sponsors terrorism, Islam?”

In the same manner that Jeffrey refused to answer whether or not the Roman Catholic Church was teaching “hate speech” for their views against homosexuality, Jeffrey refused to answer the question about supporting the religion that promotes terrorism and if you can find his page, he even saved us the trouble of screenshotting the conversation! Of course his reason for screen-shotting the conversation was to accuse 3 different people of someone named Jerry Kaifetz who recently had a falling out with Trisha Lacroix, but that just shows the extant of depravity in the minds of the anti-fundamentalist crowds they are so willing to play childish games they will blame 2 people (or 20 for that matter) of being the same person even though their doctrinal views are the difference between night and day!

It is pretty obvious that Jerry Kaifetz is no friend of the IFB and appears somewhat like some of the Do Right groups with attacks on the IFB although not quite as aggressive. This website clearly shows we are IFB and make no apologies for it. We even have a youtube video that has an audio recording of James Ach, and a video that we found made by Jerry Kaifetz that shows a clear difference in voice tone, depth, accent, annunciation and even in the face of such evidence, Jeffrey, Trisha Lacroix, Cathy Harris, Reiko Souma and a few others still follow Jeffrey’s accusations.

It is ironic that these accusations of me and Jerry Kaifetz being the same person never surfaced until Trisha Lacroix had several hundred people leave her group. This website has been here since August of 2012, and we have never changed our tune. Yet when Jerry Kaifetz called attention to some cartoon on Trisha’s page, it started an uproar that lead to an exodus out of her group and then all of a sudden, Trisha and Jeffrey put their heads together and the light bulb came on and, wallah! Jerry and James must be the same person because only Dr James Ach disagrees with Trisha and Jeffrey and all of the other anti-fundie groups.

In fact, the hundreds of people that left Trisha’s group are probably ALL Dr James Ach! And they call ME a conspiracy theorist!

This week in search of some intelligent life over at the Stuffed Undies Like website, I found just another typical example of how the anti-fundamentalist crowd and disgruntled ex-“fundies” misrepresent Baptists and in this instance just blatantly lie about what a Baptist preacher said.

The SFL’s Unholy See, Darrell Dow, posted a video of a Baptist pastor, Marvin Smith, telling a story about a deacon imprisoned for sexual abuse. [1] Darrell title’s the video on his Facebook page  “Marvin Smith tells us what causes men to become child molesters. (Hint: It’s Internet porn)”.

I’m wondering if we watched the same video or did I get the URL wrong? It’s a 2:32 minute video, surely it wouldn’t be that hard for Darrell and all of those accredited-degree wielding geniuses who are all members of the most astute and dignified universities of America (I’m making assumptions about the degrees since they put so much emphasis on it, I must assume they all themselves have degrees) to find the reference where the pastor blames subjects abuse on internet porn.

At the 54 second mark, Marvin states that the deacon admitted that his internet life was messed up. At the 2:26 mark, Marvin states that the man walked after the imagination of his heart. Not once in this 2 minute video excerpt does this pastor blame the deacons actions on just the internet porn.

Perhaps the SFL crowd is angry about the reference to internet porn because they would prefer not to have internet porn censored. There is a common theme in counseling circles called “GIGO-Garbage In, Garbage Out” and this is certainly a Biblical concept [And my sincere apologies for the use of the term “Biblical”, that’s a term that the SFL crowd and the “do righters” say is “fundy language”]. Proverbs 23:7 says “as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he”. Jesus said that if a man looks upon a woman with lust in his heart, he has committed adultery. Matthew 5:28. Job said he made a covenant with his eyes, why then should he look on a maid. Job 31:1. And David said “I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes”. Psalm 101:3. And Jesus said out of the heart proceeds evil. Mark 7:21.

So how is what this pastor said somehow in error? Not only did he not say what Darrell said he did, what he said was perfectly legitimate. If a person saturates their mind with garbage and does not “cast down imagination” (2 Cor 10:4-5) ultimately he will act on those imaginations. But I suspect that with the type of crowd that critiqued this excerpt, they want to separate porn from actions of immorality so that they can justify watching it themselves since adultery and fornication are not considered crimes and they tend to limit their slander of fundamentalism against church members who have been convicted of breaking sex crime laws.

Peanut Gallery

Darrell has a peanut gallery where comments can be posted so I figure we’d post a few to show how utterly depraved and ignorant this crowd is.

BASSENCO March 7, 2013 at 7:06 am

So this guy candidly acknowledges that he knew the guy was unrepentant, that he told the wife the man was unrepentant, and YET HE NEVER ENACTED CHURCH DISCIPLINE against a man engaged in gross sin who was unrepentant. That’s a Baptist for you! Everything except the remedy commanded in Scripture.

Next, the Lord Jesus taught that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what proceeds from his heart. A child molester is not coerced to molest because of porn. His wicked heart prompts him to molest.

This comment is from Jeri Massi, the self-proclaimed correcter of any doctrine written or preached by a fundamentalist. For Jeri Massi, if it’s not in the stars (and I mean that literally as she even uses astrology to bet on fights) it’s not in the Bible.

Now of the 2 minutes we heard, the pastor merely said he talked to the deacon AFTER HIS RELEASE FROM PRISON. The deacon had not done anything wrong YET, so just how is a pastor supposed to administer church discipline? This isn’t Hollywood where punishment occurs before a crime is committed. The pastor did what he should have and told his wife to keep him away from their children. Isn’t that part of what the anti-fundamentalist crowd always complains about, is that the pastor never says anything? This pastor is in an independent Baptist church talking about sexual abuse. I guess that fact slipped the minds of everyone of the accusers on the SFL page since they commonly accuse Baptists of never talking about these issues in church.

Yet somehow, the anti-fundamentalist commentators find a way to malign this pastor’s character for doing the right thing: warning those close to the deacon that this man is not fit to be around children. What the wife does with that information can not be controlled by the pastor. We don’t know where the abuse took place, and can only assume that it took place in their home (which is out of the pastors reach) because had it happened in the church, the wife would likely not have had to tell the pastor about his subsequent offense.

Furthermore, the pastor says that “I talked to A deacon of A fundamental Baptist church” (emphasis added). It does not appear that Marvin is the pastor of the Central Baptist Church where this was recorded, and since the subject he spoke of was not directly under his authority, he was not in a position to dictate church discipline if an offense had been committed.

And then, Jeri finishes her comment by repeating what the pastor said and acting as if he didn’t say it! Had the pastor exercised any church discipline, they probably would have criticized that, too.

That’s a Baptist critic for you.

*********

Kreine March 7, 2013 at 12:45 am

And after having watched the vid, I call baloney on the guy’s story. Too many details changed. Song leader to deacon, children to grandchildren, knew the couple previously from a town, wife had to move to that town…

So just how many details does one need to get right in a 2 minutes video?! The preacher said he talked to the man after he was released from prison, he didn’t say that he was currently a deacon. And, small churches often can have a deacon be both a deacon and a song leader.

Of course, Kreine changed his/her tune, when someone else said it is not that “incoherent” and then claimed that her own father was both a deacon and song leader. But his/her own words were “TOO MANY DETAILS CHANGED. SONG LEADER TO DEACON”. Kreine’s post emphatic about the apparent contradiction and even used it as the  basis to call the story “baloney”.

I certainly hope “Kreine” isn’t one of SFL’s Harvard Alumni.

*********

Big Gary March 7, 2013 at 12:02 pm

To make the analogy clearer:
Most child molesters wear clothes. Nudists could argue that wearing clothes puts a person on the path to child molestation …

Child Molesters also comb their hair, so that would make everyone that combs their hair a potential child molester. That is one of the most ridiculous analogies I have ever heard. Clothes are not directly related to sexual gratification unless you have a clothing fetish. There’s a reason that a Child Molester watches porn instead of reading the Kohl’s clothing catalog.

And what’s worse about this comment is that the next poster said it made sense!

I’m assuming those two graduated from Yale.

*********

Now here is a guy that actually made some sense proving that there is hope lurking among the restless disaffected SFL crowd:

Mr Jenkins March 7, 2013 at 11:13 pm

Yet another post that just proves that you people really are off your rockers. I have no idea what this video is about since I haven’t even watched it. But, it sounds as if a Baptist is trying to say that things like abuse are bad and that porn is unhealthy. Three-hundred-sixty-four days a year you people come on here and complain about being a victim of this pastor and a victim of that IFB person. In some cases I’m sure you actually are telling the truth and have a legitimate right to complain. But, now that an IFB person is apparently saying that sexual abuse is wrong and that porn is unhealthy, all of a sudden you think that sexual abuse is way overblown, not that big of a deal, and that porn is great and something we should all have the right to engage in with great gusto. Porn is a scourge and more harmful than probably most people realize. Years ago a person had to go out to a bad neighborhood and buy it, hoping no one saw you. Now it is available for free and in the privacy of your home at any time or day of the year with no challenge at all. It has corrupted the morals of our country and world and will only continue to do so. Just because an IFB person says porn is bad, you suddently turn into a Jekyll-Hyde character and all of a sudden stop your crusade “against IFB abuse” and now claim, “How dare anyone stop me from accessing as much porn as possible and saying I can’t enjoy as much sexual unrestraint as I want!” The hypocrisy of this blog is just stunning.

And of course, something a die-hard Darrellite can never do is admit when they are either wrong or when their hypocrisy is pointed out, so they do what they do best, attack the poster and change the subject to something else with “but what about…” non sequitur debates.

And we’re nearing the finish line with Dr Fundystand Proctologist (No he’s not a real proctologist, he just plays one on SFL where scores of people with fake profiles can accuse others of being fake. To be “real” you must have your certified SFL Fake ID profile).

Dr. Fundystan, Proctologist March 7, 2013 at 12:37 am

Assuming this guy is telling the truth (which I don’t), how does he qualify as a behavioral specialist? This is a common theme in fundy preaching: just basically making things up. Hey, let’s all play “Spot the Missing Major Premise”! I love that game…

So now only a “behavior specialist” can claim that porn is bad? I can see the rebellious children now; “Mom, I don’t have to go to bed and get 8 hours of sleep before school, are you a behavior specialist?”  Since the Procto wants to play, how about play “Spot the Missing Major Premise From a Two Minute Edited Excerpt”.

Dr Fundystan obviously got his earned doctorate from Stanford. 

I wonder if “behavior specialists” that disagree with each other cancel each other out! I mean, should a person see a cognitive therapist or a psychotherapist?

And of course we know that “behavioral therapists” are well above immorality and beyond reproach. (See Abuse By Psychiatrists on our Facebook page.)

We have not given up all hope though, if evolutionists are dumb enough to keep looking for missing links, I guess we’ll continue our search for a few ourselves over at the Stuffed Undies Like crowd to find some kind of connection between a human being and common sense.

 

thIt is one thing for church members and even ex church members to be angry over past incidents at First Baptist Church of Hammond and occasionally offer a rant about it, but utter buffoonery to posit constant anti-fundamentalist rhetoric on nearly EVERY aspect of FBC’s ministry and members. My observance today of such rhetoric made by the “Do Righters” and other “ex-fundies” surrounding Pastor John Wilkerson’s “ordination” at First Baptist Church of Hammond had me shaking my head in awe at the ignorance and spiteful agendas and motivations behind these groups.

Pastor John Wilkerson was chosen to replace former Pastor, Jack Schaap whose sentence for sexual abuse is to be determined in federal court near the end of this month. A video was made of the ordination service which has been re-posted by several of the anti-fundamentalist groups such as “Do Right First Baptist Church” [1]

Some of the comments read as follows:

*Rachel Raub Marie, maybe it like being baptized over and over. Maybe they are going to ordain them again every time they change sentencings…er…. I mean jobs.

*Amy Whitford They screw up everything!

*Jeremy Lape Sounds like it. Hmmm, they called an unordained preacher? my word. What’s next, an Episcopalian?

*Marie Smith No, he was ordained when he became a pastor -that is standard procedure for IFB. FBCH re-ordains because they place little value in other ordinations…That arrogant thing again.

Since these comments do not accurately portray what entails an ordination service, and include some ridiculous accusations, I will take a moment to set the record straight (as I too often must do with these groups).

Pastor Wilkerson’s Ordination

As is custom for independent Baptist churches, Pastor Wilkerson was ordained prior to becoming pastor of First Baptist Church of Longbeach, California on May 7, 2000. So yes he was already ordained.

Double Standard

The ordination process prior to becoming a pastor normally includes an examination of ones beliefs. It is ironic that the naysayers criticize FBC of being “blind followers” of men and “man worshipers”, but then question the ordination process of a preacher to verify that he actually does maintain Biblically based beliefs. One would think that to avoid having a wolf in sheep’s clothing pastoring a church, such an examination process would be encouraged, not ridiculed.

Ordination or Installation?

Jeremy Lape opined that the service should have been called “installation” instead of ordination. And they call Baptist Pharisees while they pick on the name of a service! Eddie Lapina himself clarified what the purpose of the service was for beginning at the 4 minute mark of the video. Mr Lapina even stated that it was not necessarily an inauguration but an installation service which they chose to call ordination. So it was clear from the video that it was not an initial ordination service, nor a RE-ordination.

Multiple Ordinations? Is It Biblical?

Finally, Marie Smith states [and her sentiments are shared by other groups] that FBC’s “re-ordination” is because they don’t accept ordinations from other churches and such displays the arrogance of FBC. Not only is this a complete misrepresentation of what the service was about, but displays a complete lack of ignorance of the Biblical history of laying on of hands of preachers throughout the Bible.

In Acts chapter 13, the Holy Spirit wanted Paul and Barnabas separated for a particular ministry. Paul was already directly commissioned by Christ Himself to preach (Acts 9:1-20). Yet even though Paul had already been a preacher for several years, prior to the sending out of Paul and Barnabas, hands were laid on them again. Acts 13:3.

Therefore there was nothing unbiblical about the service, or what title they chose to use to name the service.

Just another example of how the anti-fundamentalist crowd are willing to be as petty and Pharisaical as those whom they point fingers at, and often without any accurate description of IFB practices or Biblical knowledge.

J/A