Posts Tagged ‘IFB’

Dr. James Ach

For several years now, the Online Baptist forum seemed to be a place where independent fundamental Baptists could meet and discuss issues germane to other IFB churches.  There were a few clashes here and there, but for the most part, everyone held fundamentals in common that are shared by all other IFB churches.

However, within the last year, the forum moderators (one of them a mid tribulation proponent and one a defender of the Do Right Hyles Anderson Facebook Group) have permitted blatant false doctrine including but not limited to: Hyper Calvinism, Calvinism, Anti King James Only adherents, 7th Day Adventism, Preterism, Covenant/Replacement Theology, down to the moderators themselves being unable to identify what a fundamental Baptist is. The forum has no longer become a place for IFB believers to congregate and enjoy conversations about the Bible, fellowship, and learning from each other, but having to constantly police the threads putting out fires of false doctrine, and then putting up with the moderators when members complained to them to do something about it.

Those of us on Twitter have seen the vast amount of fake IFB parody accounts that have flooded IFB preacher’s feeds. I have personally blocked 76 such accounts from following me on Twitter. Most of these are members of the Stuff Fundies Like forums and followers of James White and JD Hall (and we know of at least one account ran by Fred Butler). They have an agenda of infiltrating forums and groups of known KJVO independent fundamental Baptists for the sole purpose of causing chaos, confusion, disruption.  The infiltrators used tactics that I am all too familiar with after seeing them used by terrorists in Israel for so long where “Palestinians” would lob fire bombs over our borders, and then blame the IDF for being cruel when they defending our land and people in retaliation. The infiltrators deliberately targeted me, and a host of other knowledgeable Bible defenders, and then complained to the moderators about how hateful we were in “attacking them” when we sternly corrected their false doctrine as Paul told us to in Titus 1. The moderators ate it up like politicians eating LGBT persecution cookies, banned me, and caused those who USED to care about the forum to leave.

Today, I’d personally had enough. After warning the moderators repeatedly about the recent influx of heretics, a warning that was echoed by countless other members (many who have already made the exodus from the forum) I told the moderators they could shove the forum between a Catholic “Bible” like an Apocrypha. Enough is enough. The Online Baptist forum is neither fundamental nor Baptist, and will continue down its path of a diminished influential forum until someone steps up and cleans house.

It is truly sad that in this day we are seeing more fundamental Baptist churches compromise with their CCM music, and their entertainment programs and their watered down standards, and their tails tucked between their legs whenever a hint of controversy arises where they might actually have to make a stand and defend what they profess to believe in. It’s sad to see something as simple as the maintaining of a forum and letting it fall so hard to heretics, but I’m afraid it’s just one more small sign of bigger things to come among the ranks of professing fundamental Baptists.

isthisajokeI thought, this MUST be some kind of internet prank. Not at all. Jack Allen Schaap is really appealing his 12 year sentence for his sexual abuse of a minor. (We have articles on the plea agreement here and here.)*

Schaap is challenging his sentence on the grounds that the victim was an alcohol and marijuana user and abuser and that she aggressively pursued him sexually.

First of all, from a legal standpoint, it is highly unlikely that the courts will even give this kind of appeal a second thought. When a defendant accepts a plea agreement, they waive their rights to bring facts to a jury trial and that would include “newly discovered evidence”. The only exception to such rules are if the new evidence could not have been known even with a modicum of due diligence at the time Schaap was gathering evidence for his defense. The “new evidence” raised by Schaap is not evidence that was not known to Schaap during the initial proceedings, and could have been raised.  As such, these kind of arguments are not grounds for an appeal.

Secondly, since Schaap did in fact accept a plea agreement, typically one must resolve the issue of the plea before any additional arguments can be heard regarding the facts of the case as these are waived by the plea. Schaap would have to prove that he was either coerced into making the plea, was not competent when he entered the plea, or did not enter the plea knowingly and/or intentionally. The burden of proof will be on Schaap to prove that his plea falls under any of these criteria, and the plea must be set aside first before the court can even begin to entertain the “new facts” Schaap has raised. In our opinion, it would be highly unlikely that Schaap’s plea is set aside. Thus, regardless of whatever “new evidence” Schaap claims, true or not, it is doubtful that he would be able to get his plea set aside in order to even raise these issues.

Even if Schaap’s plea does somehow get set aside, that would not cause a sentence reduction, it would merely entitle him to a trial, and he would be back at square one in preparing for a defense in a jury trial which would likely land him even more years if he goes to trial and loses. If Schaap somehow thinks he is going to get his plea overturned and then negotiate a better plea agreement later with the government, I think he is in for a rude awakening.

Thirdly, Schaap’s defense of “she pursued me aggressively” is normally covered by Rape Shield laws. In other words, a victim’s sexually history can not be used against her. Just because a woman is promiscuous, even if she was a prostitute, that does not mean that she is lying when she alleges that she has been raped or molested. There are some exceptions to the Rape Shield laws (such as if the victim had several prior cases of falsely accusing someone of sexual misconduct) but  even if the girl in Schaap’s case was promiscuous and aggressively pursued him, it is doubtful that the court would allow that kind of defense to be raised. The same goes for the marijuana and alcohol usage. The federal rules of evidence prohibit evidence of prior bad acts and any exceptions to those rules do not apply in Schaap’s case.

From a Biblical view-point, did Potiphar’s wife not pursue Joseph aggressively?

Genesis 39:7 “And it came to pass after these things, that his master’s wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me. She pursued Joseph, “DAY BY DAY”, and Joseph still refuse to lie with her:

8 But he refused, and said unto his master’s wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;

There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

10 And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her, to lie by her, or to be with her.

11 And it came to pass about this time, that Joseph went into the house to do his business; and there was none of the men of the house there within.

12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand, and fled, and got him out.

13 And it came to pass, when she saw that he had left his garment in her hand, and was fled forth,

14 That she called unto the men of her house, and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in an Hebrew unto us to mock us; he came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice:

15 And it came to pass, when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out.

16 And she laid up his garment by her, until his lord came home.

17 And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant, which thou hast brought unto us, came in unto me to mock me:

18 And it came to pass, as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out.

Does not Proverbs devote entire chapters of advice on dealing with sexually aggressive women?? “For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life.” Prov 6:26. EVEN IF THIS WAS TRUE OF HER, it is NOT an excuse for a professing Bible believing pastor, particularly one in a fundamentalist church that is notorious for preaching against such actions to such an extent that such Baptist standards are called “legalism” by Non IFB type churches, and often things Schaap HIMSELF PREACHED AGAINST.

What Jack Schaap has done, and what he is now doing are an embarrassment to the body of Christ and a black eye to the fundamentalist churches across the world. One has to wonder with such a frivolous appeal-is Schaap deliberately attempting to keep himself in the spot light as revenge against church members that no longer support him? Byin order to continuously reminding everyone that the pastor of a fundamentalist Baptist church took advantage of a teenager, he can surely guarantee that all the hostility toward IFB churches will come home to roost again, and perhaps that is part of Schaap’s plan. What else could he possibly be thinking in addition to the obvious fact that he simply doesn’t want to ‘man up’ ?  Schaap got off pretty easy, and now he wants to challenge that?


PS We do note that Eddie Lapina and staff at First Baptist Church are in support of the court’s initial action against Schaap in this matter. So to our lovely IFB critics, don’t even bother commenting with any additional non sense about FBC.

*Our search shows that Schaap filed a Motion to Vacate Sentence on March 19, 2014, US District Court, Norther Dist of Indiana, 2:2014cv00087. The cause of action is listed as 28:2255 (or 28 U.S.C. sec 2255) which is the federal version of the petition for writ of habeas corpus. Hence this is not really an “appeal”. Since this motion must be filed within a year of sentencing, this was likely Schaap’s last ditch effort and the best he could come up with.


By Dr. James Ach and Dr. Elisha Weismann


UPDATE: Court Rejects Schaaps Appeal August 26, 2014

say what

[*Note: Since this article was published, Jeri has republished the article on her website under the title, “Loss of Faith” or rather that “Destroyer of the Faith was a rehash of Loss of Faith]

On May 9, 2013, Jeri Massi wrote a blog entitled “Destroyer of the Faith” in that after the first few paragraphs of ranting about experiences in her earlier years as a fundamentalist, attempts to define the cause of departure of those who have abdicated from either fundamentalism or evangelicalism. She does offer a few good points, but then true to form, inserts her personal bias that causes the avid Bible student to take what she says with a grain of salt.

In her first attack against fundamentalists, Jeri opines that:

Fundamentalists believe in an inert, dead, random cosmos. In essence, while maintaining that they believe in Creationism, they use the evidences of atheism and an atheistic view of the universe to support their argument.

And then argues after this bullet that:

Science. This is pretty close to the first item, but I think the distinction is that Fundamentalism forces its adherents to ignore new discoveries in genetics and physics that support evolutionary theory

While Jeri does not explain how she arrives at the conclusion that fundamentalists believe in an inert, dead, random cosmos, it is laughable that she compares a fundamentalists defense of creationism to the same model used by atheists.

Atheism begins with the premise that there is no God. That fact alone is enough to discredit Jeri’s caricature of fundamentalists arguments for creation. If a fundamentalist believes that God created the universe, then it’s pretty simple to conclude that the model of debates are not synonymous among the two. Jeri may attempt to assume that arguing for creation ex nihilo is a similar model since atheistic evolution applies that same standard to gases and it’s chaos theory, but that does not mean that the egg came before the chicken anymore than fundamentalists who have always maintained this position borrowed it from atheists. I’m pretty sure Moses and Job would agree.

Nevertheless, what is stifling about Jeri’s argument is that she often cites the Bible as an authority in the majority of her writings, which would be commendable if her methods and conclusions were accurate. Yet, in this argument, she demonstrates that there are some arguments where external evidences take precedent over the Bible. So is science Jeri’s final authority? or the Bible?

It is hypocritical and inconsistent that Jeri claims to hold the Bible as the authority on spiritual matters, but then demand that fundamentalists be required to remain apprised of all the new discoveries of science that attempt to discredit creationism.

If a Christian claims to believe the Bible, and that the Bible is sufficient to explain the origins of the universe and all creation, why would it be necessary to respond to any “new” discoveries that science claims as a rebuttal to any Christian model of creationism?

The Bible says, “In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth” in the very opening statement of the scriptures. The Bible further states that God created something from nothing or the ex nihilo position (which is not only clear from the first chapter of Genesis, but also a logical deduction made from Romans 4:17). Romans 1:20 states,

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Not only does the Bible explain that the world was created, but that it was God that created it, and this fact is emphasized so much by Paul that he holds it as evidence that those who reject it are without excuse.

Moreover, the Bible says that the fool says there is no God. Psalm 14:1.

Furthermore, the Bible explicitly admonishes the believer to reject falsely so-called science. 1 Timothy 6:20.

And what is science but a man-made system of rules that define its observances. The rules of science in the humanistic sense do not permit for the existence of God to be a logical conclusion. For example, the six-step scientific method (and some argue for additional steps) can not place a miracle into a controlled environment, and then repeat the results, and therefore miracles are beyond the realm of what science can verify by its own rules. Since creation would be considered a miracle, yet can not meet the criteria for scientific observance and experimentation, it is thus rejected by the majority of the scientific community because the standard of evidence required to “prove” creation is different from say the standard of evidence required for proof in a court room.

Although science argues against faith, ultimately, the scientist must believe that his assumptions and theories are correct, which does not do much to separate it from a religion, and often serves to prove its bias.

The atheistic model of creation has at least 2 popular premises: that there was a cosmic explosion, and that there were gases and other chemicals that existed from which all life derived given billions of years to culminate.

No matter what new discovery is published, scientists of such ilk can not explain how order came from chaos, or where the chaos came from. If there was a “big bang”, where did the bang come from? If there were gases, where did the gases come from? The model of atheist evolution ultimately requires an infinite series of existing gases and bangs, none of which could ever independently exist by themselves and without any previous evidence of intelligence, somehow developed intelligence from non-intelligence and injected that into humans, animals, and then it created trees, complex DNA structures, gravity, and weather conditions conducive to creating additional life forms and sustaining all matters of life.

The atheistic model argues against an Infinite Intelligent Designer that existed for eternity, but argues for an infinite series of explosions and gases. The premises and conclusions of atheistic evolution are so illogical that it is not necessary for one who believes the Biblical explanation of creation to “keep up” with science. Following Jeri’s logic to its least common denominator, Jeri would argue for the possibility that even though she believes in the Biblical model of creation, that eventually science could refute it with some new discovery. This would demonstrate that Jeri does not have a clear conviction about the origin of the universe, which would in essence, make her an agnostic. She certainly can not claim to reprove fundamentalism according to the Bible, and then reject the Biblical explanation of creation and still claim to believe that Bible she uses to reprove fundamentalists.


Now this is where Jeri actually DOES have a valid point. It has been said by many that “I would have become a Christian had it not been for Christians”. I had a grandmother that used to say, “You may be the only Bible somebody ever reads”, and that reflects a passage that Paul mentions in  2 Corinthians 3:2:

Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men

What is ironic though is that Jeri recently wrote an article condemning “standards” within fundamentalism, and then states:

Fundamentalists and Evangelicals live in a religion where the only way to cope with it is to go through it with one eye closed against what its own ministers and leaders are doing in direct disobedience to what Christ commanded. [Emphasis added]

Um…Jeri…could those things in which fundamentalists and evangelicals are in direct disobedience to be called STANDARDS! Perhaps the reason that fundamentalists nor evangelicals demonstrate the love of Christ nor a reflection of holiness is because they are repeatedly told by many other preachers and bloggers that Christianity has no “do’s and don’ts” in it, and when arguing so vehemently against standards, it leaves people wondering if there is any objective standard in which to evaluate the life of a believer from knowing what is sin, and what type of behaviors to avoid. If there are none, then everything is permissible, and if everything is permissible, then is it really the fault of the person who acts no different from the rest of the world for doing what nothing prohibits him/her from doing?

You can argue that “well, Jesus is our example, just ‘put on the Lord Jesus Christ'”. As true as that statement is, it neglects the pragmatic and practical applications of how that is implemented throughout the Bible. Those applications are often found on what fundamentalists call “standards”.

Granted, there is room for justified criticism of fundamentalists that invent man-made rules (Mark 7:13) based upon adiaphora, but over all the standards preached within fundamentalism are legitimate, and hypocrisy is a result of rebelling against those standards. Paul said that God foreordained us unto good works (Eph 2:10). Although works are not a requirement to be saved, you can not confuse justification with sanctification. Works are a compliment to faith and demonstrate its validity (James 2:10-23), they are not an enemy of living by faith unless a person relies on them to be justified before God.

Thus, I can not criticize Jeri for rightly pointing out that far too often the biggest obstacle to Christianity are Christians.

However, in this analysis, even though hypocrisy can be listed as a REASON for abdicating ones faith, it is not a legitimate EXCUSE for rejecting it. Jesus Christ is not responsible for the actions of hypocrites, and ultimately, He will judge their hypocrisy whether here in this life or the other side of heaven. 1 Timothy 5:24. Should Christians demonstrate good works so that men may see the difference and glorify God? Yes. Matthew 5:16, but every man shall give an account of themselves to God (Romans 14:12) and whether at the judgment seat of Christ, or the Great White Throne judgment, no Christian or unbeliever will be excused for their actions based upon the hypocrisy of another person.

God has revealed enough of Himself and offered enough evidence for what Jesus Christ did through the cross, and how to live as a Christian, that one can live a victorious Christian life pleasing to God regardless of what actions others take that are contrary to scripture.

When I was a teenager, I worked part-time in a  restaurant. There were standards and rules for preparing the food, and there were many that for the sake of production concerns, “cut corners”. This often resulted in many complaints and even though it was a reflection of the franchise, that did not mean that I had to compromise my ability to prepare the food the way it should be done because others cut corners. I had the choice of either cutting corners myself, or following the codes that were in effect to make sure that the customer had a healthy and pleasant dining experience.

Eventually, the management were able to determine who was cutting corners and terminated them (a lesson that fundamentalists could practice), and the customers often requested that I prepare their meals. I was able to keep customers coming back to the restaurant, because even though there were some that gave the franchise a bad name, there were a few that refused to cut corners.

Those who did not like the corner cutters could make the choice of blaming them and never coming back, or they could realize that there were employees that did not cut corners and strived to provide a good product and continue their patronage.

That’s not a perfect analogy, but there are Christians in fundamentalism that continue to strive to present Christ in a Biblical manner, and fundamentalism as a whole should not be boycotted and vilified because of the few corner cutters.

While I do not consider Jeri Massi to be of the same ilk as many of those I criticize on here or as egregious in her methods as many other so-called advocates, there remains many fatal flaws in her hermeneutics and in her caricatures of fundamentalism, and the article at issue here is just one small example of that.

bible burnJust when I thought the rantings at Jocelyn Zichterman’s rampantly atheistic group “Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors” couldn’t get any worse, someone sent us a link to this post which begins:

Finally made it through the new testament.The rice paper in the bible makes great rollin paper.

And of course, this Bible burning in using the Bible for rolling either cigarettes or marijuana gets tacit approval from the sister of Jocelyn Zichterman, and group administrator, Melissa Fletcher, who replies:

I always had “don’t destroy the Bible” guilt. Like the KJV, thrashed out book of my childhood would somehow make me wrong with God if I tossed it.

One poster who made it clear that he was not IFB, simply asked “what’s wrong with believing the Bible” and because of that statement, was called a “Bible thumper” to which Melissa replied, “Bible thumpers are not welcomed here”.

The group began as an attack against the IFB and it’s followers based on experiences that Jocelyn Zichterman had with her own father, Bart Janz, a Baptist preacher, and her brother Jason Janz, also a preacher. Jocelyn’s husband, Joseph Zichterman, was also once a highly recognized fundamentalist preacher and together along with his wife, had a website that encouraged belief in the scriptures when Joseph made an unexpected and abrupt change and left his Baptist pulpit.

Their flight away from the IFB also appears to have occurred after Jocelyn’z brother, Jeremy, passed away after spending 14 years in a coma caused by an automobile accident [1](although it appears from other articles I have seen that Jeremy, too, was included in the allegations of sexual abuse against Jocelyn although I am not aware to what extent. I have read where the allegations against Jason Janz involved him being on top of her fully clothed when they were in their early teens [2], but have not been advised or informed if there were allegations that exceeded those details, and considering the source of the above link #2, without separate corroboration can not rely solely on a single comment from a person who claims to know Jason).

Nevertheless, the group has evolved into an all-out attack against Christianity as a whole. The allegations against Bart, Jason, Jeremy, if true would certainly give Jocelyn validation for her anger, but why blame God? Unfortunately, many who suffer abuse at the hands of professing Christians throw the Bible out altogether (or burn it, as is the matter at issue in this article). It’s as though if God is all-powerful, and COULD have stopped abuse, then the conclusion is that He SHOULD have stopped it, and because it was permitted per se, according to the abused it is ultimately God’s fault.

This is a classic argument against Christianity in the problem of the existence of evil. If God is a loving God, why does He permit chaos? The short answer to that (and I say short because there have been entire volumes written on this subject) is that God gave man dominion over the earth, and man chose to use his choice to acquire knowledge of good and evil by disobeying God which produced a domino effect that has cursed all of humanity with sin. Although God provided a remedy from the penalty of sin in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the deliverance from the presence of sin and judgment upon unbelievers is yet future. God has not forced man to comply with His standards, and since He is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance, in His patience He has allowed man the opportunity to come to Christ even during a time where it appears that evil has been the victor in world events.

The fact remains is that God HAS done something about evil, but man in his lust for vengeance seeks his own brand of justice, and wants that justice right now, and if God doesn’t judge immediately and prevent evil from occurring, He must not be a loving God. Yet those who are unsaved are already under judgment and are awaiting their sentence if they have not received the free pardon that is offered through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

These are all facts that were once known to Jocelyn, and she has allowed the crisis she has faced to shape her views against God, and is now encouraging and permitting an assault against the Bible, Christians, and God altogether.

What is also sad are the amount of members who at one time, professed to be Christians, now siding with Jocelyn. Two of the most noteworthy are Cynthia McClaskey and Nancy Bicknell. We’ve written a few words about Cynthia on here, but Nancy Bicknell has been the moderator in Jocelyn’s group for about six months according to Jocelyn. Nancy Bicknell poses as a Christian in groups like Profaned Pulpit (an anti-IFB group but with at least some emphasis on the Bible in that the group encourages belief in God and the Bible, but maintains many of the attitudes of the other anti-fundamentalist groups) and yet sings the praises of Jocelyn Zichterman in the following comment:

So proud of your accomplishment…what a great book and timing to open the eyes of the public to the IFB abuse.

Nancy Bicknell places humanism and psychiatry above God and the Bible, and if she is or ever was a Christian, it amazes me how any professing Christian deems it wise or appropriate to stand in agreement with those who attack God and the Bible. It is like the Pharisees and Sadducees who even though having fundamentally different views of Old Testament doctrine, came to agreement on the “problem” of Jesus Christ and ultimately set aside their differences for a common cause and conspired to crucify Him.

But God will not be mocked. The sad thing is that the Bible they are burning will be their judge one day. And the retributions that they accused God of neglecting will be a reality against them for their rejection of and mocking of Jesus Christ. Nobody will get away with their abuse or sin when this world eventually draws to a close.

tree hugIn a rare appearance on her own group page (she has a habit of starting groups and then not paying attention to them), Jocelyn Zichterman, the woman who “fired God”, wrote the following for a topic discussion:

Another topic: Do we die and go to the “kingdom of heaven”? Or are we living ON the kingdom of heaven? If you conclude we die and GO TO the kingdom of heaven, you would surmise (potentially) that we shouldn’t give a F*** about this earth we live on. But if you understand we’ve been given this planet by God/s, then you surmise that we must CARE FOR this planet (yes?). What were you taught and how has it altered your view of “Going Green” and what that means to the human race? [profanity edited by us]

At first I thought she may have simply switched religions and went from her old Baptist roots to Catholicism and was attempting to start a discussion on Dominion Theology, but then I noticed that “God/s” was plural, so considering the degree of which atheism has been promoted in her group, and the amount of Christians being banned from the group, perhaps maybe Wiccan? [1][2]

I thought, Joc just wants to have a pow-wow about tree hugging, she doesn’t really mean let’s all go green. But then just when I thought she could have accused the Baptists of everything from cereal that gets too soggy too soon, to stores that can’t sell helium for balloons anymore, she made this grandiose claim:

I understand what both of you are saying. That’s why I brought this up. We have to rally together as a nation/world and enable everyone to “go green” or it will never happen. Just thoughts to chew on — but it’s a new day — and if we all talk about our childhoods and how they indoctrinated us to HATE this earth, well, we can be the ones to inform the masses — so LASTING change can finally be made. If we don’t understand how to take care of the place we live on — then how in the Gods name can we be entrusted to care for anything else? [emphasis added]

Now I must admit, THAT’S a new one! So now to add that Baptists subjugate and objectify women, teach members to abuse children, we can add “indoctrinating us to hate this earth” to the list.

I get that spending quality time with abortion proponent and Democratic National Committee spokeswoman, Debbie Wasserman broken-branchSchultz, may have went to her head (the Dems have a time of it promoting Al Gores Green Agenda), but to go full Shirley Maclaine on the Baptists with the absurd notion that our children were taught to hate the earth?

I’ve listened to a lot of preachers in my life, read hundreds of books written by Baptists, and spent countless hours watching videos of sermons and lectures by Baptist preachers, and I don’t remember in my childhood or church experience ever being taught that my enemy was the earth, the flesh and the devil.

Shame on the Baptists for not taking the earth’s feelings seriously and for minimizing and covering up abuse of the trees. Perhaps she can get “shoot Baptists on site” added to the Biodiversity Treaty (signed by Clinton in ’99) if their children are found in a tree house made from endangered wood.


No trees, grass, or leaves were harmed in the publishing of this article, it was completely electronically produced from a computer made with recycled plastic.


See also “The Fruit of Jocelyn Zichterman’s “I Fired God”=Atheism

408493_261951307269644_1604332539_nIt’s not enough that Darrell Dow of Stuff Fundies Like to encourage marijuana usage on his site that claims to help survivors of “IFB abuse” in a post that generated over 150 likes on Facebook (the most on his page this year), but today he posts an excerpt from Baptist Evangelist Allen Domelle criticizing Domelle’s admonition to be careful of doubt. [1]

This is what Domelle said:

You must understand that one of the greatest tools Satan uses is unbelief. If he can get you to simply doubt, then he can win the battle. God is a God of absolutes. God does not want us to live in a world of unbelief. God plainly tells us in His Word what is right and wrong. You must be careful that you don’t allow unbelief to cloud your judgment and miss the blessings of God.
–Allen Domelle

This comment was preceded by Stuffed Undies Like founder Darrell Dow’s quip:

So much for doubt being part of faith, I guess.

As I have stated in an article before on this site, Darrell wouldn’t know a Bible verse if it cooked him dinner, and this is just more evidence of the blundering attempts that Darrell makes to vilify Baptists. Hard to believe he wrote a book called “Fundamental Flaws” of the IFB churches and “how to fix them” when he can’t even accurately define something as simple as faith and unbelief.

Darrell seems to equate the Bible’s recording of statements by those who expressed unbelief or doubt as a Biblical endorsement for a lack of faith. Nevertheless, Darrell’s quote itself is erroneous on its face. It’s like arguing that darkness is necessary for the existence of light. Darkness is the absence of light, light is not the cause of darkness. Unbelief is the result of not believing. Faith is not the cause of unbelief. Faith cures doubt, but the presence of doubt is not necessary for their to be belief. For me to believe that my car is sitting in my garage does not require me to doubt that it is not.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Romans 3:3

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

But with a name like Dow, I can see how someone with his lack of spiritual insight can confuse such a theory with Taoism (pronounced Dowism, ironically!) and it’s yin and yang concept.

Which Way Did He Go, George?

Which Way Did He Go, George?

What does the Bible have to say about doubt and unbelief?

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Matthew 14:31

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 3:18-19

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:11

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear. Romans 11:20

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Romans 11:23

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:58

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:23

And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. Luke 12:29

Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. Acts 10:20

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 1 Timothy 2:8

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. Mark 16:14

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

It’s pretty pathetic  when someone becomes so desperate for fodder against Baptists they are willing to take statements of preachers encouraging others to have faith in God and turn them into satire.



Jocelyn Zichterman writes of her “experience in the IFB cult” in a book titled, “I Fired God”, and runs a Facebook page called, “Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors”.

Without going into detail about Jocelyn’s claims to have been an advocate appointed by the FBI to assist victims, or her communist beliefs that government should mandate policies in churches and Bible colleges, let us just show you the type of fruit that her group produces:

What I’ve learned while studying atheism: Atheism is widely misunderstood, even by some of those who claim to be atheist. Its not that I can prove there is no god. Its more like I’ve seen the “evidence” for your god and have found it to be woefully insufficient. This world functions exactly the same with your god in charge as it would if we were simply highly evolved primates with no divine creator. If you claim that there is a god who not only created this world, but also cares about what happens in this world, about what gender I am, about whom I love or in what position I love them, you have an insanely high burden of proof. It is not on me to prove that God doesn’t exist. It is on you to prove he exists and cares what I do. (Two different cases) Please note – the Bible is not evidence. Church Father’s are not evidence, random claims of creation instead of evolution are not evidence. You may believe god exists by faith, as faith acknowledges there is no evidence, but do not come to me with faith and call is evidence. Only after coming away from Christianity and freeing myself from the mental slavery and suspension of disbelief, have I been able to find real healing. For me, surviving the IFB cult has required a return to reason, scientific process and a life that is firmly anchored in the here and now. I don’t believe based on faith, I follow the evidence and the evidence thus far leaves me with no other conclusion than there is no god. (all credit for non-original thought goes to Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Pen Gillette and others whose name I have forgotten)
Donna Jefferson I, too, have found solace and peace in atheism. You will be attacked for your views, scripture will be quoted, and outrage will be expressed but I appreciate your courage and conviction.
Rachel Raub I am glad you got out and I am glad you found what works for you. ……Rachel Raub Signed: Stereotypical Loudmouthed Feminist.
Elizabeth Niederer Bummer, can’t find it. In any case, the guest was an eminent scientist and provided some pretty compelling-sounding arguments for behaviors we consider to be uniquely human, such as demonstrations of altruism, ethical or moral principles, being far more widespread and NOT tied to religion or philosophy. 

Gee, if monkeys can treat one another well, one might think non-religious humans could do the same eh? *eyeroll*
Sharon Cooney I identify as a Humanist, and I suspect there are a few here who are as well, but don’t realise it. I do not accept that there is any kind of deity to be feared or judged by. I live by the Golden Rule, and encourage others around me to as well – without shoving it down anyone’s throat (each to their own). Common decency, respect for your fellow human (including those who are mentally bound by dogma), respect for the earth, respect for other living things (yes, I eat meat because we are omnivorous beings) so there is hope for a better future for our descendants has absolutely nothing to do with any god, or any religion. I am a free thinker. I believe back in the day I may have been called “one of those long haired hippies”, and I reckon I would have agreed whole-heartedly.
Michael Holt What made me denounce Theism? I faced the fact that if I used the same line of reasoning that I used to reject a belief in foreign gods, that I would have to give up mine too. In Science, we have something called the Null Hypothesis. Its what we use to test the natural world. If a hypothesis can not be proven true, then it is to be rejected and considered false. Yahweh, as well as other foreign gods, is credited for scientific claims in the bible, that we now know is false. That means that an all knowing creator God could not have inspired the bible writers to write what they wrote. Debunk the Creation myths? Then the God of that myth must not exist. What I found when I spoke to others about this? Is that they would make special pleadings and logic leaps to justify and excuse these falsehoods. And what happens when the bible makes a false scientific claim? Christians just twist it and make it symbolic or poetic or something else. But here is the thing. Under Null Hypothesis? I don’t have to prove negatives. I have to prove positives. I can still reject theistic claims and logically conclude that there is no rationally justified reason to believe in one. Which by default? Still made me an Atheist.
Joel Erickson As far as stealing being wrong regardless of whether or not someone else sees you, there’s this thing called empathy that allows people to place themselves in the shoes of another individual to try to share their experiences. Empathy requires no supernatural explanation.

As far as your passive-aggressive description of people sending themselves to Hell, you are reinforcing the concept that the relationship with a god and the relationship abusers have with the people they abuse is very similar.

People who are abused are asking for it.

People who abuse have no choice; their inability to control themselves is the fault of the person or people they abuse.

Do these comments sound like a deity you know of?
David Piper Something similar started me on the path to Atheism.The question that could not be answered by any fundie Christian I know: “Why would a (supposedly) loving god allow fully 2/3rds of the world’s population (non Christians of ANY variety) to perish?
Translation Errors Have ALWAYS Brought Harm To Women
Ryan Dillingsworth Now its my turn to say “what the f are you talking about?” Did you even look at the whole post – women are actually being stoned to death, enslaved, and all sorts of shit around the world (and even maybe at a few IFB “wayward girls” houses) and actually do need advocates – the point is to point out the difference between this and those that run around making an issue out of every little thing like getting asked out for coffee or people using “gendered” language turning everyone into enemies of one another, etc etc. ……… and no way am I a Neo-Con phony like Rush L.
We are the founders of Peaceful Parenting, Atheism, and Anarchism. If you are an atheist, anti-theist, voluntaryist, libertarian, anarchist, and into peaceful parenting.. please add us. J
Mark D Young Many Christians don’t want to deal with mental illness. They want to believe we have a soul located inside our chest, and what happens with our bodies or brains should have no effect on us, if we just “get right with the lord”
You get the picture. This is the results of what happens when you attempt to create groups out of spite, revenge and hate.
We have addressed Skepticism here (article from Norman Geisler) and will address some of the silly logic used in some of the above comments to defend atheism. We don’t spend a great deal of time dealing with atheism because only a fool says there is no God. But for the faint-hearted who we find occasionally that truly believe some of the ridiculous presuppositions set forth by atheists and agnostics, we add 2 cents now and then.
This is in response to an email challenging us to prove that these groups produce atheists as we stated in other articles. This is only a very small handful of comments and posts from that site, and many of the members of this group are also members of the other “Do Right” groups as well.
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Matthew 22:34
When the Pharisees saw that Jesus had out-witted the Sadduccees, they attempted to band together in a unified effort to trap Jesus. The professing Christians among these groups have adopted the same philosophy: band together with other groups even if they don’t share our views for the sake of a common cause. Even though the common cause has the appearance of pursuing legitimate concerns, God is just as concerned about the means  (2 Samuel 6:1-7) as He is the end (Eccl 7:8). And Christians who think that they can mingle with heathen and not learn their ways are fooling themselves (Psalm 106:35, 1 Cor 15:33). The above evidence of such attempts is a painful reminder of that fact.
But just a few thoughts for the atheist to ponder:
*No atheist has ever successfully explained the origins of the universe. While they claim that creation is not scientific, not even the laws of science allow for the great leaps of faith that it takes to believe in evolution or that order came from chaos. Evolution is still called the ‘THEORY” of evolution which is contrary to the terms that science gives to what it believes it can prove (the LAW of thermodynamics, the LAW of gravity, etc..).
Not only has atheism failed to explain the origin of the universe, but if their own theory of order from chaos is true, or a “Big Bang” caused creation, or massive gasses randomly created complex DNA structures that led to intelligent life, where did the Big Bang come from and from whence did all of the gases come from? Some argue that they have always existed which flies in the face of their argument of the impossibility of an eternally existent God. If gases can exist for an eternity, then why not God!
*No atheist has successfully explained the innate desire of man to wish to be good and respect each other. Atheists attempt to argue (as they did in comments above) that apes can be taught to be friendly, but that’s the difference, animals have to be taught, humans do not. Every human being has a sense of morality and atheism has no adequate explanation for the origin of man’s conscience.
*Atheism has never been able to adequately provide a link between fossil records.
*While atheism argues against faith to believe in creation, they themselves will not admit to the amount of faith it takes to NOT believe there is a God or faith needed and lack of evidence for the theories proposed for evolution.

 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20.

Melissa1                                               Melissa Fletcher is the sister of Jocelyn Zichterman, and moderator for their group page


Man-Holding-Ears-ShutIf you want to know what a fundamentalist really believes in, just ask someone like Jeri Massi or Jocelyn Zichterman, they have an entire list and an array of articles that define every tenant of faith any fundamentalist has ever believed in. In fact, with the help of astrology, Jeri Massi was probably aided in writing articles that Baptists forgot to write about.

There has certainly been enough fodder to feed the Wehrmacht Anti Christian Kiddy Order (“WACKOS”) , and with the crimes committed among members belonging to IFB churches, the leap has been made from the abuser to IFB doctrine itself. There have been criminal convictions, lives wrecked, families harmed, among accusations of cover-ups. The rhetoric from the WACKOS rivals that of the best conspiracy theorist in that every deviant act committed by a member of an IFB church was plotted by and covered up by a ruling member of the IFB body, and ultimately, it was the doctrines of the IFB that permitted and even caused the acts.

Nevertheless, there are some matters that the WACKOS have a right to point fingers at us fundamentalists for. But, if there are abuses permitted within the IFB with impunity, and cover ups, then why are the “fundies” not listening? Are the groups that ripped off the Bob Jones Sr “Do Right” slogan right about fundamentalists?

No, they are not, and there’s a good reason why we don’t listen to them.

The Dishonesty of the Critics

Embellishment of Facts

When news first surfaced about sexual abuse occurring at Bob Jones University, it was reported that nine rapes were covered up and made to appear that nine separate perpetrators had been involved. Eventually it was discovered that all nine cases were committed by the same person, and the perpetrator was arrested. I am certainly no fan of BJU due to issues over the KJV, but if accusations are getting leveled against an entire college, there’s no need to embellish and distort the facts.

Misrepresentation of Fundamentalist Beliefs

Any cursory perusal of blogs such as “Blog On The Way” by Jeri Massi, “Religions Cell” by Cynthia McClaskey, or “Stuff Fundies Like [which I have labeled “Stuffed Undies Like”] by Darrell Dow, one would think that the IFB promotes misogyny and the slaughter of animals for penance. Just a few of the erroneous assumptions made and self-imposed caricature created by these WACKOS are as follows:

*Baptists’ goal are to brain wash members and exercise total control over them.

*Baptists distort the Bible to make women slaves.

*Baptists attempt to forcefully prevent members from leaving the church. If you leave the church you are going to hell.

*Baptists promote “King James Onlyism” so they can control what their members believe.

*Baptist teach a fear-based religion to manipulate followers into worshiping their leaders and giving money.

*Baptists blame the victims for being abused (be sure to insert at least one good example, like Chuck Phelps or Mark Monte).

*Baptists teach that outward appearance is necessary to be in good standing with God.

*Baptists teach that a person should forgive their offender because the real goal of forgiveness is to prevent a person from reporting a possible criminal act and Baptists would rather pressure a person from “telling” than “hurt the cause of Christ”.

*Baptists force you to be what they want you to be.

*Baptists don’t believe in repentance.

*Baptists are all about glorifying themselves and praising each other (don’t forget to write that in your $19.95 book on “Schizophrenic Christianity”.)

Ad Nauseum

If I took the time to debunk all of the articles contained on these websites, I’d have a series that exceeds the Encyclopedia Britannica. It’s as if the statement of faith or the “What We Believe” section of a fundamental Baptist church reads:

1. We believe in the plenary inspiration of the Bible [which by the way, Massi criticizes that view as well] 2. We believe that God exists in 3 persons; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit 3. We believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ 4. We believe that salvation is by grace through faith, and that salvation can not be attained by baptism or “being good”. 5. We believe that crimes should be covered up and children should be molested.

Jeri Massi wrote an article about repentance, but failed to mention that repentance means turning to God from idols, i.e, astrology and Buddhism. She wrote a practically Arminian view of repentance, and then wrote a Calvinist view of free will. In her article on the “erroneous IFB ‘free will” doctrine, she accuses Baptists of following Pelagianism, but only cites a the partial view that Pelagianism views man is a free moral agent, but leaves out the part that Pelagianism holds that man can achieve good works without the assistance of any Divine intervention, and that man has no original sin nature. Not even an honest Calvinist should make that kind of leap.

There is not one fundamental Baptist church that I know of that holds to the nature of sin in the manner that Pelagianism describes it.

In an article by Cynthia McClaskey, she opines that the Bible has been twisted and distorted and Baptists have deliberately left out “lost gospels” and perverted the canon of scripture. This view is put forth to prove that Baptists create their own theology by strategically using selected texts to their own advantage.

Not only is that one of the most ridiculous and uneducated arguments I’ve ever heard, but defies the facts of history, particularly considering the line up of PROTESTANT scholars that were on the King James translating committee. In her fallacious attempt to frame Baptists, she ignores an enormous amount of textual evidence that would make even Westcott and Hort shake their heads. Her argument posits that because there were men who were actively corrupting the Bible (which occurred even while the apostles were writing, 2 Cor 2:17) that ALL of the Bible from henceforth must be corrupt. But then of course she will USE the Bible in articles when it fits her presuppositions to do so.

You may view one of our articles about her attempt to paint Baptists as misogynists here

Not only have such critics failed to give an accurate description of what fundamentalism really is, or what the IFB churches actually teach, they have distorted facts, misinterpreted scripture and often even relied on anti Christian sources to prove their views. And hence one reason why fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics is because of their dishonesty.

The Motives Of The WACKOS

There is no question in my mind that there are ulterior motives behind many of the so-called “victim advocate” groups who make up a large majority of the critics against the IFB. It seems some want attention like Nadine Salgado who now maintains a You Tube page that gives the appearance that she has been some First Baptist Church insider that is now “coming out”. She maintains a group page called “What You Need To Know About Jack Schaap”. Really? What do we all need to know that isn’t already contained on every other website in the country and on court records?

Everyone is having their “coming out” party now. Former church members such as Jeremy Lape, among many for example, who haven’t stepped foot in ANY church for 20 years let alone an IFB church, now all of a sudden have a perfect recollection of every conversation they ever had with Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, Victor Nischik, and the Pope.

I remember back in 1985, Jack Hyles winked at me from the pulpit and we shook hands after the service and he said hello to me.

Translation: “I knew Jack Hyles very well. I was at his church for 10 years (even though I only shook his hand once). I mowed his lawn, counseled his children, fed his dogs, aired his tires. Jack Hyles was my best friend until he died, then his ghost came to me in a dream and reminded me of all the evil things he did and when Jack Schaap got arrested just to taunt me, then I remembered all the times that Jack Hyles, John R. Rice, Lee Roberson, Shelton Smith drug me into an alley and stole my shoes, beat me senseless, and cast lots for my shoestrings”.

And if you have heard a rumor, because you have heard that rumor, you are now part of the “in crowd” of that particular church, and can craft the story any way you choose to give the appearance that you actually have first-hand knowledge of the events that surrounded the lives of IFB preachers. If you can’t think of an original story, find one closest to the time you may have been a member of the church or college, and run with it, but change a few details.

This is the 15 minutes of fame crowd, and some attempt to achieve longevity to exceed that 15 minute fuse by insisting that you buy the book on it, or bookmark the website.

Then there are the atheists and homosexuals. Never in my life have I seen such an influx of atheists and agnostics take such an interest in mingling with other Christians on a victim abuse site, nor the willingness of other so-called Christians to embrace them and give license to their unbelief.  Jocelyn Zichterman’s Facebook page is full of the most vile atheists who literally play the devil’s advocate in guaranteeing that those church members are aware that it is the belief in God that leads to abuse.

And homosexual groups such as BJUnity hop on the bandwagon attempting to convince followers that they are concerned about abuse within the fundamentalist churches. Of course, the abuse by their own communities is never addressed because their own community doesn’t call homosexuality a sin.

The preaching of sound Biblical doctrine which is vehemently opposed to homosexuality and atheism is a stumbling block and a rock of offense to them. As long as there are any conservative views held by politicians and voting church members  that believe in legislation based upon morals taught from the Bible, the homosexual community will attempt to silence those voices at all cost while preaching “tolerance” to all views but those of fundamentalists.

Therefore another reason fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics is because of the motivations of the accusers.

The Accusations Are Inaccurate And/Or Embellished

I wrote briefly heretofore of the inaccurate statements that critics have used to define fundamentalism, but one thing that needs emphasized is the ability of the critics to “make a mountain out of a mole hill”. Although abuse should not be tolerated anywhere, the abuses that have occurred within the IFB make up less than 1% of all the documented cases of abuse in public schools, public colleges, foster homes, other denominations, sex trafficking, secular clubs (e.g., Boyscouts), prisons, nursing homes and even among psychiatrists.

The atheists point fingers while atheism was the philosophy that inspired the murder and torture of millions of citizens under Joseph Stalin, Lenin, and Mao Tse-Tung. The homosexual community screams foul play while six of this country’s most notorious serial killers and rapists were homosexuals that account for more than double the rapes and murders of any IFB list with only the 6 of them.

Jeri Massi maintains of list of abusers. Some who have been convicted of a crime, and some, such as Alabama Governor and Fox talk show host, Mike Huckabee and pastor of First Baptist Church in Atlanta, Charles Stanley, who are merely “guilty by association”. Meaning that because they wouldn’t talk to protesters, or take the time to cancel a meeting that someone else scheduled for them or make abuse the topic of their show at the insistence of a protester, they get placed on the wall of shame with those actually convicted of a crime (and of course, Mike Huckabee is a Baptist).

There was the story of Tina Anderson whom was raped by Earnie Willis. The allegations that followed that case was also that Chuck Phelps sent Tina to another state to hush the matter after demanding that she apologize in front of the church. So the logic goes, Chuck Phelps attempted to cover up the crime, Chuck Phelps was a fundamentalists, therefore all fundamentalists ship rape victims off to another state and cover up the crime. (Chuck Phelps has created a website to respond to his accusers here)

Just recently, BJU was accused of hiding the criminal record of an employee convicted 20 years ago of soliciting a prostitute. Now I don’t know what BJU’s policy was concerning background checks, I do know that the technology for background checks is much more sophisticated and thorough now as it was back then. But nevertheless, BJU ultimately fired this man. Was that good enough for BJUnity founder Jeffrey Hoffman? Nope. At first, the contention was how could BJU have hired this man, and now the quibbling is over why BJU fired him.

Moreover, the crime this man was convicted of was portrayed by the WACKOS as a sex ABUSE case, and the prostitute who willingly received money from this man and willingly attempted to engage in sexual activity was labelled a “victim” and used as another example of IFB abuse. Now I do not defend these kind of actions at all, and if he purposely hid this crime when he was expected to disclose it, then he can’t complain that it caught up with him, even if it was 20 years later.

However, I have not seen where he actually had sex with this prostitute. The charge was SOLICITATION meaning that he ATTEMPTED False accusationto have sex with a prostitute. There was no manipulation or force or coercion such as is part of the mens rea that constitutes acts of a sex crime. A prostitute is a victim of her profession and perhaps a victim of her upbringing that led her/him to believe prostitution is an acceptable line of work. Or it is just greed (Read Proverbs chapters 5-7 to see the Bible’s position on prostitution).

Nevertheless, the WACKO crowd used this as an opportunity to embellish this matter to vilify fundamentalism.

Manufactured Crisis Tactics

A well-known tactic in politics is the “manufactured crisis” tactic. This is where you identify a potential problem, then create a panic about the problem, and then offer a solution and encourage the voters remember you at the ballot box.

a_peanutIf I find just one thing wrong with a peanut, I can find 100 other ways to describe the problem, and then create a blog about it, remind readers EVERY DAY that peanuts are dangerous, find at least 100 people world-wide that have choked on a peanut, buy air-time on CNN and every major radio outlet in the country, and within a month or so convince millions of people that peanuts are a menace to society and need to be eradicated.

Jeri Massi has amassed a list of approximately 86 offenders within the IFB. That list spans over about 10 years or so. So among the thousands of IFB church members in the world, lets round it to 100 known abuse cases. Now granted, the offenses were a manufacturing of the offenders own making, but the manufacturing of the perception that abuse in the IFB is epidemic is Jeri’s (and others such as Dwayne Walker “Bible Madness”, Chuckles Travels, and all of the afore-mentioned groups).

Now take a breather and look at those statistics again, only one-hundred cases in the span of ten years documented out of the hundreds of years of the recognized fundamentalist churches in the world and the thousands upon thousands of fundamental Baptist church members.

However, if a writer opines about one subject on a daily basis, and hammers on the subject incessantly, it has the exact same indoctrination effect of the appearance of an epidemic that the critics accuse the IFB of using with the Bible.

Most Abuses Occurred Within a Home Environment

Most of the abuse cases did not occur in an IFB church, but occurred in a separate environment and most at home. Acts of abuse that occur by a parent, spouse, sibling that occur within the home are not so unique from similarly situated cases of abuse that one can justify blaming the IFB simply because the abuser was a member of an IFB church. The IFB is not full of perfect people, nor is the church as a whole. Christians are just as capable at committing heinous and violent acts as the non-Christian. Although the Bible is clear that such behavior should not even been once named among the saints (Eph 5:3), there is no justification whatsoever that the churches are responsible for what occurs in the homes of its members.

The temptation is to blame the church because had the offender followed God the way he/she OUGHT to have followed God the abuse would have never occurred. But because it DID occur, then it must be the churches fault. The pastor must have taught false doctrine and that caused the perpetrator to wake up one morning and molest or beat their child.

Thus one more reason why fundamentalists do not listen to our critics is because the accusations are often inaccurate, embellished, and in some cases, turned out to be completely false.

Abuse Has Lost It’s Meaning

The term “abuse” has been described as everything from being spanked to being told by a parent to make your bed. Demanding that a child adhere to certain house rules can cause irreparable emotional damage and is therefore considered abuse. Preaching on sin and judgment is not conducive to a productive healthy mentality and is therefore deemed “emotional abuse” (2 Timothy 4:2).

Critics of the IFB don’t simply limit abuse to sexual or physical abuse. Virtually anything that is taught that conflicts with a lifestyle of debauchery, homosexuality, drug use, discipline, morality, or even affirming that Christ is the only way to heaven are viewed as “abuse” and said to cause psychological harm. Terms such as “bible”, “Jesus”, “sin”, “repent” are seen as “triggers” and anytime a believer attempts-even in the most gracious of spirit-to offer prayer or Biblical support, such an effort is stifled by the “triggers” excuse.

According to all the best advice from the “accredited” psycho therapitsts, victims should seek to solve their own problems their own way first, and “religion” should be a last resort. The Bible is a “trigger” that can re-victimize the abused. So Jesus is out, and Dr. Be Yourowngod is in. After all, 8 years of secular education outweighs an omnipotent eternal God any day, and Jesus wasn’t “accredited” (John 7:15).

According to Darrell Dow, even the term “Biblical” is abusive. Christians should not use the term “Biblical” to define a particular belief. Because that would give the impression that the belief is based on the Bible, and we know that the IFB doesn’t really believe the Bible.

Fundamentalists Maintain A Different View Than The World

For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 1 Peter 4:3-4

The world thinks us “fundies” are strange. Well, we are a “peculiar people” (1 Peter 2:9). We do and believe things differently than what the rest of the world sees as good, positive and acceptable. We don’t buckle under the pressure of what our critics demand because “there is a way that seemeth right unto man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” Proverbs 16:25, and, “every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD pondereth the hearts”, Proverbs 21:2.

Those who are not born again will not understand why we live differently (1 Cor 2:14) and the backslidden do not want to hear that their lifestyle is not pleasing to God. A person robbing a bank doesn’t want a lecture on greed anymore than a wayward Christian wants to be told they are robbing God by defying His commandments and living in spiritual adultery. Therefore the backslider must study the logic of the world and learn to accept it and promote it to ease his conscience and justify rejecting the holiness that God expects for those whom He bought by blood. Acts 20:28.

We preach forgiveness because Christ forgave us. Col 3:13. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Rom 5:8. The world wants vengeance. Forgiveness is not an option to the world because the flesh wants to be avenged. The carnal mind wants to make the offender suffer as much as they did, so it is unconscionable that one should cast their cares upon the LORD (Ps 55:22, 1 Peter 5:7) and let God mete out vengeance (Rom 12:19). To pray for those who persecute you and despitefully use you (Matt 5:44, Rom 12:14) is “fundy rhetoric”.

For the critics, it’s OK if Christ forgave THEIR sins, but don’t expect them to forgive YOURS. If the critic can not obtain their own vengeance, then they will join a group of like-minded critics and live their vengeance vicariously through the ire of other victims.

We preach hell or the lake of fire, because that is the destination of those who die without Christ. We do not preach it as a means of control or to install fear. (see our article on Would A Loving God Send Anyone To Hell). We preach hell for the same reason that hundreds of charity groups attempt to find a cure for cancer or diabetes. Michelle Obama and the New York City Mayor preach that unhealthy eating can lead to insurmountable health problems and liberals sing their praises. A Baptist tells a person that if he/she does not repent and receive Christ as Saviour they will spend an eternity in a burning lake of fire and we are labeled “hate mongers”.

We preach that salvation is by grace through faith, and that a believer is eternally secure in his/her salvation and can never lose what God wrought. Contrary to the misconception that Baptists teach outward appearance is necessary to please God, I have never seen one altar call in a Baptist church that did not emphasize that the sinner must forsake their own righteousness (Titus 3:5, Eph 2:8-9) and depend on the finished work of Christ and receive Him without relying on good works for salvation. We preach salvation by grace because the world believes that man is evolving and can somehow be good without God and get to heaven if they live a good life, never hurt anyone, be kind to all, give to the poor or join a church and get baptized. We preach that salvation is a “gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast”.

“Our righteousness are as filthy rags” sure doesn’t sound like “Baptists always emphasize the outward appearance”. “He must increase, I must decrease” doesn’t resemble the theme of Stop Baptist Predators.

We preach that Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way to heaven. Acts 4:12, John 14:6. Christianity is not a “religion” that is mutually corroborative with other beliefs; it is exclusive. The world believes that Jesus was just a good moral teacher if they even believe He existed at all (and there is more proof for the existence of Christ then there is for the existence of Abraham Lincoln). Muslims say Allah had no son, Buddhism and Hinduism deny that Jesus is God nor do they believe that Christ was crucified and raised from the dead. Yet the gospel of Jesus Christ is explained as Jesus dying for our sins, being buried and arising from the grave 3 days later (1 Cor 15:1-4) and that must be believed in order to be saved (Romans 10:9-10, 1 Thess 4:14)

We preach that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19-20) and that we are to glorify God in our bodies. Therefore we preach against drugs, and fornication, and adultery.

We preach that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it (Eph 5:25) thus we do not believe that husbands are permitted to control and abuse their wives. We preach that fathers are not to provoke their children to wrath but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (Eph 6:4). That rules out child abuse whether physical or sexual.

We preach separation because the Bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers (2 Cor 6:14) or those who call themselves my-way-frank-sinatrabelievers who walk like the rest of the world (1 Cor 5:11). God ordained the believer to walk in good works after salvation (Eph 2:10) and set the example of Christ, not act like the world and conform to it (Romans 12:1-2).

Fundamentalists don’t listen to critics because they have their own brand of what’s right and wrong, and most of the time, even though some of their accusations are correct (as were some of the accusations of the Pharisees, Matt 23:3) their manner of what constitutes the pursuit of a good moral person or what defines a Christian is warped. The church is expected to address sin of its members BY its members (1 Cor 6) and just because some have failed to follow that, doesn’t mean we now must forsake our views and turn our ears over to the worlds way of addressing church conflict.

Fundamentalists are not better than anyone else. We are not sinless, and not perfect  and it is certainly not a requirement to be a Baptist to be saved. Yet critics attempt to vilify the history of Baptists and even mock the “trail of blood” but when confronted by a Bible believer that can defend the history, tuck tail and run off to the closest gossip closet for immoral support. Our critics attempt to create their own model of the ideal fundamentalist, and then add lumpy appendages and deformed extremities to their model and criticize the model for not looking like a Michelangelo sculpture.

Independent fundamental Baptists have helped the homeless, fed the hungry, built hospitals, and have a genuine compassion for those in need of Christ. The few examples of those who have been offenders are not representative of the ilk of fundamentalism as a whole. And because of the dishonesty of the critics, their embellishment of abuses, lack of consistency in conveying sentiments for certain classes of victims, their misrepresentation of what fundamentalists believe, and sometimes just outright fabrication of allegations are some of the primary reasons why fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics.

Our standard is the life of Jesus Christ as written in God’s preserved word, not the humanistic logic of the world:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” 1 Cor 1:18-24

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to go abuse a hamburger and wait patiently for the next critic to publish an article “Do Right Christians Calls Victims Wackos” who refuse to recognize the audience this article is directed toward.


Former pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Indiana,Jack Schaap, was sentenced today in federal court to serve 12 years in federal prison. Official Court Sentencing Order)032013 Judgment and Commitment Order

For other details surrounding this case, see our article on the Jack Schaap Sentencing Memorandum

The prosecutor and Schaap’s defense attorney had both initially agreed and stipulated to a 10 year sentence which is the minimum sentence required to be dispensed under federal law. There is no word yet on whether Schaap will attempt to appeal the sentence since the sentence exceeded what he had agreed to plead guilty to. (Convicted persons may not appeal a conviction of guilt that is based upon a plea agreement, but at times, may appeal a sentence if there is an abuse of discretion, or if the defendant plead guilty under the promise of receiving a certain sentence.)

Federal law generally begins with a mean, and then the courts may decide based on aggravating or mitigating circumstances whether or not to “depart” from that mean, or in what federal law deems an “upward” or “downward departure”. The Honorable Rudy Lozano noted several things that likely deemed the sentence worthy of an upward departure (See also United States Sentencing Commission, Sentencing Guidelines §2G1.3):

*Schaap fired an employee for reporting the affair with the teenage girl to Cindy Schaap, Schaap’s wife.

*Schaap had sought advice from a computer technician within the church on getting rid of evidence.

*The egregious nature of the grooming and Schaap’s position as a trusted leader of a religious community.

The Honorable Rudy Lozano also stated, “We are dealing with the treasures that are most important to us – our children.”

Schaap responded in part,

I thought I wanted to be this family’s savior. “Sometimes people try to be heroes … in trying to be a hero, I became a fool. If you love me, please don’t blame this family for my wrongdoings. Blame me”

Judge Lozano also ordered Schaap to serve 5 years of supervised release upon completing his sentence, and noted he must register as a sex offender for life.

Federal inmates are eligible for 54 days off of each year they serve for “good behavior” credit, which amounts to approximately 85% of the time they serve. Jack Schaap was arrested on September 18, 2012, and with the pre-sentencing jail time credit will likely be released @ July 5, 2022 as a tentative release date (according to BOP sentencing calculators, although our personal calculations arrive at a later date. Once Schaap’s abstract is prepared for the Bureau of Prisons there will be an official date listed).


And of course, right on cue is Trisha Lacroix taking credit for Schaap’s arrest. Trisha states on her Facebook page:

Many of us worked tirelessly to have him arrested. FBC DID NOT report his abusewe did. My teams of admins and I worked for 8 months with victims of First Baptist Church. And while I handed over the reins of the group to new admins, we continue to work behind the scenes. [1]

(Bold print emphasis added).

Once again, as we stated with PROOF from COURT RECORDS, not hearsay or gossip, but actual court documents, and statements taken under oath by witnesses, that FBC staff are the ones that called the authorities. It was FBC staff that turned in photos of Schaap and even reported to them that he tried to get them to cover it up. All of Schaaps actions and attempted cover ups were reported to the authorities BY FBC STAFF before any do righter even knew all the facts of the case.

Furthermore, when this story first came out, it was actually Jocelyn Zichterman who claimed to have called the FBI, which we now know is not what led to Schaap’s arrest. So even IF it were true that the Do Right Hyles Anderson group beat FBC to the punch, it would have been Jocelyn Zichterman, not Trisha Lacroix, that provoked the arrest. Trisha Lacroix claimed to have distanced herself from Jocelyn Zichterman shortly after the DRHAC group was created, and now Trisha wants to take credit for what Jocelyn Zichterman actually laid claim to!

A very funny commentary indeed, but the fact is they are BOTH full of it. The evidence points to FBC making all of the initial contact. Trisha and many anti-fundamentalists say the FBC members listen to a man twist the Bible and blindly follow him, while Trisha stands on her “Do Righter” pulpit and twists the facts of documented court evidence and her group blindly follows her! (Although to the credit of many members in DRHAC, they left her group after blasphemous cartoons were posted demeaning Jesus Christ, and photos were posted of Trisha in a skimpy bikini on a Facebook page claiming to help sexual abuse victims.)

She ends her “acceptance speech” with the words of a CCM Music group “Word of God Speak”, and only a few comments below discusses how a picture of Willy Wonka “makes me horny” just prior to dedicating a workout (of all the silly things) to a homosexual rights activist, Jeffrey Hoffman, for “all the work he does for gay rights”.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when at first we put on a mask and feign to bereave.

Come quickly Lord Jesus.

Former pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond, Jack Schaap, will be sentenced on March 20, 2013 in federal court for having sex with a 17 year old girl having crossed three state lines in the process of the commission of his crime.

Our website has received hundreds of comments and e-mails with different tails of these events both in support of Schaap and adamantly opposed to him. Some stories that we read which showed apparent inconsistencies led us to believe there was a possibility that this “rebellious” girl had a connection with a popular so-called victim’s rights advocate and may have targeted Schaap.

After reading the sentencing memorandum, nothing could be more further from the truth. The documentation provided in the sentencing memorandum paints a picture of the events of Schaap’s crime that neither those in support  of Schaap nor those who have attributed Schaap’s acts as representative of all of fundamentalist churches seemed to be privy to.

As we explicate certain facts within this memorandum below, we urge not only followers of certain “Do Right” groups to reevaluate the trust they have put into the leaders of these groups who have apparently made bogus claims about their involvement with this case, but also to members of First Baptist Church who appear to support Schaap without having known the entirety of Schaap’s depravity in this matter.

As Christians, we need to extend forgiveness to all, and that includes Jack Schaap. However, extending  forgiveness does not mean minimizing the natural consequences of his actions or upholding him as a man of integrity and or a representative of the gospel of Christ nor any fundamental Baptist church. Jack Schaap should be allowed to live with the stigma that he has created for himself, and if he is restored, in my opinion that would only occur after he has capitulated on his false doctrines, and demonstrated a genuine display of repentance. Nevertheless, he should NEVER pastor another church.

Claims That Do Right Hyles Anderson Made Taking Credit For Schaap’s Arrest.

Those who followed this case, and read the numerous media articles are well aware that Trisha Lacroix of Do Right Hyles Anderson, and Jocelyn Zichterman, have taken credit for Schaap’s arrest and touted such as their crowning achievement in exposing abuse within the IFB. Not only did they claim credit for this, but accused all of the staff of First Baptist Church of covering up the incident and refusing to “do right”.

The documented court evidence proves otherwise.

Not one single mention is made of the FBI being tipped off by an outside source in 23 pages of documentation.

What the report does state is that FBC staff became increasingly concerned about Schaap’s behavior but did not yet have evidence of a crime. The report shows they repeatedly warned Schaap about how much time he was spending with the girl. Page 6, Sentencing Memorandum. Jack Schaap called a meeting to chastise his staff for their assumptions (which demonstrates that they were trying to find out what was going on) and then within a few days, a staff member found evidence of Schaap’s crime in which the sentencing report states led to Schaap’s “firing and law enforcement investigation”.

The report does show that a secretary was complicit in Schaap’s actions, but does not state whether she knew what Schaap’s intentions were, or that other FBC staff knew that the secretary was assisting Schaap. Although one would have to wonder why a secretary transporting a pastor with a 16-17 year old would not raise red flags. This is one example where trusting your pastor does not mean checking your brains at the door.

The report clearly shows that FBC staff did not let up on Schaap, and eventually found evidence and not only fired him but contacted law enforcement.

Now we do not deny that perhaps Jocelyn Zichterman called the FBI, but the report makes it clear that it was FBC staff that initiated the contact with the police, not Jocelyn Zichterman, nor Trisha Lacroix. One could argue “well maybe they are trying to protect their informants”. Not likely considering that they went to national media outlets taking credit for this.

Whatever FBC staff could have done better which is highly speculative, the actions that they DID take are certainly not the same picture that was portrayed to everyone from the anti-fundamentalist groups according the court record.

Jack Schaap’s Manipulation and Heresy

Never in my life have I seen a person use such manipulative grooming tactics as Schaap did with this 17-year-old girl.

The record shows that this girl had been traumatized and emotionally damaged prior to talking to Schaap, and this fact was known to Schaap because it was e-mailed to him, printed out and handed to him by his secretary in April of 2012. Page 8, Sentencing Memorandum. 

Schaap begin with an initial counseling session which led to him spending personal time with her outside of the church and office.

Within 2 months of Schaap’s relationship with the girl, he wrote her the following in a birthday card:

I can’t get you out of my mind. I keep thinking about how much I enjoy talking
with you, how great you look when you smile, and how much I like your laugh. I
daydream about you off an on all day, replaying pieces of our conversation . . .
laughing again about funny things you said or did. I’ve memorized your face and
the way you look at me . . . it melts my heart every time I think about it. And I
catch myself smiling when I imagine what will happen the next time we’re
together. You must be something really special, because I can’t remember the last
time I felt so strongly about someone. Even though neither of us knows what the
future holds, I know one thing for sure – you’re one of the very best things that’s
happened to me in a long time.

Page 9, Sentencing Memorandum

Not only was Schaap a married man, but this was a 17-year-old girl whom he demonstrated “romantic” feelings for after only 2 months.

The religious rhetoric that Schaap used to groom and bait this girl are beyond appalling and blasphemous. In another handwritten letter to the girl, Schaap writes:

I’ve been doing much thinking about you – our brief journey together has
been like a spiritual allegory (a story that illustrates a truth 🙂 . . . Your life began
to deteriorate w/ actions + activities that were self-destructive + that would have
brought great tragedy eventually. Then, as your Pastor, I began to counsel you +

you to God, the truth, and to a better path of living – that’s what we
call Righteousness.

You gave me your trust, your
heart, your love, + your affection. [Unintelligible] must feel when a sinner makes
Him more than a Savior – he/she makes Him a beloved lover + friend.

In our “fantasy talk,” you have affectionately spoken of being “my wife.”
That is exactly what Christ desires for us. He wants to marry us + become eternal

Page 9-10, Sentencing Memorandum (emphasis added)

The repetition of  “spiritual allegories” and seductive language couched with Biblical overtones is so reprehensible I am surprised he was not struck down by God Himself as when God killed Herod for blasphemy in Acts 12:23.

And as if that wasn’t bad enough, Schaap writes the following blasphemous heresy:

When we get scared, Jesus sends His spirit to live within us. But He does
not personally live with us. He waits until we have fully matured before he takes
us to Heaven to live with Him.

I must follow the example of Christ. I have espoused you to Him as a
chaste virgin. You are pure + lovely + perfect in His eyes. Now you must mature
in His grace until the time he brings you to Himself.

Jesus sends His spirit when we get scared? He does not “personally live with us”? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? If Jesus waits until we all “fully mature” before taking us to live with Him, then NOBODY is getting into heaven. Furthermore, the Bible is clear that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved. Eph 4:30, Eph 1:13. Moreover Jesus said of the Holy Spirit in John 14:17,

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

How this man ever snookered his way through an ordination inquest baffles me.

Schaap Knew He Was Wrong 

I have seen letters where some argued that Schaap had medical problems, suffered stress or other abnormalities. However, that would only serve to alter his state of mind where it could be claimed that he was delusional IF any medical evidence could substantiate that such health factors could be a proximate cause of such behavior.

Yet Schaap downloaded an “I-Phone” app that was designed to erase evidence. Page 3, footnote, Sentencing Memorandum. This clearly shows that Schaap was aware of his actions the entire time. Not only that they were sinful but that they were criminal. Schaap also arranged meetings with the girl on a “forest reserve”. If Schaap truly believed his actions were just, why the secrecy?

A Plea To Pastor John Wilkerson and FBC Staff

Probably the biggest complaint I have heard against FBC is that they have been alleged to show a lack of remorse for the victim and her family, and according to the court report, even banned them from FBC. This is not a case where refusing to discuss the matter in public or to the church is best for the “cause of Christ”. I believe that the public who look up to members of First Baptist Church need to hear how FBC feels about the victim and her family, not just about how this event has brought shame to the church.

First Baptist Church is now pastored by John Wilkerson. I have listened to several of his sermons, and he appears to have a very gentle and meek character. If he hasn’t done so already, I would plead with Pastor Wilkerson to reach out to this family and offer condolences, sympathy, and your regrets for what occurred at the hands of the leader of the church.

Churches across the world should mark actions and teachings such as what was propagated by Schaap, and learn from it. Now I am no expert in sexual abuse prevention in the church. If a person is set to do evil, he/she will do so regardless of what preventative measures are in place. But I do not believe it is appropriate for a male to ever counsel a female, and I am confident that I am familiar enough with the Bible to recognize false doctrine when I hear it, and a married man who falls in lust with a 16-year-old girl within a 2 month time period is someone who demonstrates he has long held to erroneous doctrines that either could or should have been recognized by others.

Even we at Do Right Christians were quick to judge when this story first came out, but the evidence has shown that we were hasty and our sincere apologies to the victim and her family if we have written anything that contributed to their suffering.

We hope that all Bible believing Christians will remain in prayer for First Baptist Church of Hammond, for the victim and her family, and be humbled by this experience and let it move us to seek the Lord and His righteousness to teach the truth in love, to respond to crisis according to God’s prescriptions, to hold our leaders accountable, and get back to the business of reaching a lost world for Jesus Christ.