James White’s “Could Lazarus Have Said ‘NO’?”

    I want to examine the often cited proof text that Calvinism and Reformed Theology use as evidence that the spiritually dead can not resist the call of God in the story of Lazarus on John chapter 11. I want to begin by examining the argument of popular apologist and Calvinist author, James White.

James White, in a short video here, makes an extravagant emotional appeal that if Lazarus is not raised from the dead, and Jesus fails, then “scratch Christianity”. He further states, “Jesus did not whisper, but yelled loudly so that there would be no question about who was calling Lazarus”. White claims that this event is a fulfillment of John chapter 5, where Jesus said that the day would come where the dead would hear the voice of God and be raised from the dead.  “Lazarus did not choose to become undead” says White. White contends that since Lazarus could not have said no to be resurrected from physical death, that this is a legitimate proof text to show that the Christian can not say no to God’s voice while spiritually dead.

Calvinist Charles Spurgeon writes about Lazarus,

The helpless paralytic cannot begin his own restoration. Enmity against God cannot choose love for him. The dead corpse of Lazarus could have no agency in recalling the vital spirit into itself. After Christ’s almighty power restored it, the living man could respond to the Savior’s command and rise and come forth.

Likewise, Arthur Pink says,

 “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” Lazarus in the grave, raised to life by the word of Christ, gives us a perfect illustration of God’s mighty work of grace in the hearts of His elect.”

Calvinist apologist, Loraine Boettner opines that,

Fallen man is as dead spiritually as Lazarus was dead physically until Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!” He is as dead spiritually as the Pharisee Nicodemus, to whom Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (Jn. 3:3). Christ said to the Pharisees, “Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word” (Jn. 8:43). Apart from divine assistance, no one can hear the invitation or put forth the will to come to Christ.

A popular Southern Baptist website sums up the Calvinist interpretation of the story of Lazarus as follows,

The example of Jesus calling Lazarus from the grave is a common popular illustration that calvinists [sic] use to illustrate the phenomenon they call regeneration prior to repentance and saving faith. Calvinism teaches that God effectually calls the lost man with a dead heart and deaf ears to life so that he can THEN repent and believe and be saved. Calvinists use Jesus’ command outside Lazarus’ tomb to illustrate the power of the effectual call in regeneration; “Lazarus come forth” and he came to life. When God calls the elect to life, they like Lazarus have new life and are born again and begin to live as a child of God.

My point is that in this system the gospel is NOT THE POWER OF GOD UNTO CONVERSION because it has no power to save the unregenerate; only God can do that because the unregenerated person CANNOT or WILL NOT repent and believe to be saved. The unregenerate is like Lazarus in the tomb; he is dead and lifeless and has deaf ears that cannot hear the gospel.

THE PROBLEM

The entire problem with comparing Lazarus’ physical death and PHYSICAL resurrection to spiritual death and subsequently a spiritual resurrection is that the PHYSICAL resurrection was NOT MEANT to convey the raising of a SPIRITUALLY DEAD person to everlasting life, but:

1. To show Christ’s power over death and to symbolize His own physical resurrection from the dead (John 11:25, John 2:19, Acts 2:24).

2. To show to future resurrection of those who DIE IN CHRIST (John 6:40, Matt 22:30, Phil 3:11, 2 Tim 2:18, Rev 20:5-6).

3. That a believer does not have to wait until being physically resurrected for the assurance of salvation because Christ IS the resurrection.
To prove that Lazarus is a worthy example of Christ irresistibly saving a person spiritually dead in sin, it would obviously be necessary to prove that Lazarus was dead in sin otherwise the analogy is useless. However, Lazarus was ALREADY SAVED-of which Martha seems to agree (John 11:24)- when Christ raised him PHYSICALLY from the dead, so it is an erroneous analogy for the Calvinist to use the example of a SAVED DEAD PERSON as analogous to how Christ “quickens” a SPIRITUALLY DEAD person to life everlasting.

This then would force the Calvinist to conclude (as some have) that Lazarus was not saved until Christ raised him from the dead. This presents 2 problems with Calvinist theology. First of all, it conflicts with Hebrews 9:27, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment”. It would have Christ saving someone after they have died in their sinful state. Secondly, the Calvinists always affirm that God only loves His elect, and no others, but if Lazarus was not saved until he was raised from the dead, then John 11:36 presents a problem for the Calvinist here: “Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!”. Christ loved Lazarus BEFORE He raised him from the dead. Thus this would refute the Calvinist belief that God does not love the sinner, and proves that God can love someone prior to their salvation if in fact Lazarus was spiritually dead in sin. If the Calvinist objects that Lazarus was indeed elect, of course God would have loved him, then this serves to prove a point in which some Calvinists often object to that a person is regenerated and guaranteed salvation before they are actually saved (which would seem to be implied by the Calvinist view of predestination). It nevertheless displays a blatant contradiction in Calvinist theology that God does not love the person who is dead in sin.

Thus either the Calvinist has to admit that Lazarus was saved, or they must admit to a flaw in their theology about who Christ actually loves in addition to attempting to reconcile Christ bringing a spiritually dead person to everlasting life after he died in his sin. If Lazarus was saved, however, the Calvinist must deal with the erroneous analogy of Christ quickening an ALREADY SAVED person to life physically, to justify their theology of God quickening a spiritually dead person in his LOST state PRIOR to him actually being saved.

Any attempt to use Lazarus as an example of God quickening a person who supposedly has the inability to respond to or hear the gospel fails in light of Lazarus’ condition, and to add such a bogus private interpretation is an insult to the purpose behind Christ raising Lazarus from the dead:

“Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:” 1 Cor 15:36

Another problem that the Calvinist face with this view of Lazarus is Jesus’ answer to the Sadducees about who a wife will belong to among several husbands in the resurrection (Mark 12:18-23) to which Christ replied in verses 26-27,

And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Now if the Calvinists contend that God reserves the elect unto salvation while they are spiritually dead in sin until the “effectual call” is given unto the spiritually dead person, and like Lazarus, he then comes to spiritual life, then this effectually makes God the God of the dead.

JOHN 5:21

The Calvinist often sites the story of Lazarus with John 5:21-25, where Jesus states,

 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:  That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

The first thing to notice about this passage which is in direct conflict with Calvinist theology is that the raising of the dead comes before the quickening: “For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them”. In Calvinist theology, the quickening always comes before the actually life giving spiritual resurrection.

Secondly, the Calvinists take the phrase “quickeneth whom he will” as an indication of God’s selecting only some to salvation. The verse does not offer any exclusions to parse out this quickening to a particular set of elect. The “whom he will” is in verse 24, “He that heareth my word AND BELIEVETH ON HIM THAT SENT ME, hath everlasting life”.

Thirdly, Jesus is specifically referring to a final resurrection from PHYSICAL death.  John 5:28-29 clarifies this passage,

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

For the Calvinist to argue that this verse applies to all who are spiritually dead being resurrected unto spiritual life, they would also have to argue that we are in spiritual instead of literal graves. Furthermore, if the Calvinists were consistent with their definition of ‘all’, then this verse would show that only ‘some’ hear the voice of God. But if only some hear the voice of God, then this verse would mean that there are those of the ‘some’ that hear the voice of God that end up awakening to the resurrection of damnation!

Fourthly, although the truth of salvation is certainly stated in John 5, that belief is necessary, and one can certainly make a useful analogy in a spiritually dead person hearing the voice of God and responding by faith unto salvation, there is nothing in this passage that indicates mans inability to do so that requires the quickening of God first by an irresistible effectual calling nor that the spiritually dead have the inability to hear the voice of God. In fact, John 5 expressly states that the dead as well as those saved in Christ hear the voice of God in John 5:29. Moreover, using the same logic used by the Calvinist in the definition of verses that use the type of “rise from the dead” language, we read in Ephesians 5:14 the command for a person to wake himself up and THEN Christ gives them light. Thus this explains why the Calvinist must force John 11 and John 5 together, when neither of the 2 passages have any allusion to the other, and are entirely different contexts.

And finally, to add the nail in the coffin of the Calvinist misinterpretation of John 5, we see the following verse that repudiate the doctrine of irresistible grace and determinism,

He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. (v 35) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (vss 39-40).

Notice that Jesus did NOT say “Ye CAN NOT come”, He said “Ye WILL NOT come”.

There is absolutely no justification for using the story of Lazarus as a proof text for the Calvinist doctrines of Total Inability, Irresistible Grace, and their man-made distinction of the “effectual call” (The distinction that God generally calls all to salvation, but only enables the elect to respond). The story of Lazarus is a beautiful picture of Christ’s power over and conquering of death (1 Cor 15:56-57). It is a shame that this passage has been given the emphasis that has been imposed upon the text by Reformed theologians. Adam not only heard God’s voice, but responded to God in the Garden of Eden while he was considered spiritually dead in sin (Gen 3:9).  Such a view diminishes mans clear responsibility to willingly turn to Christ in repentance by faith and presents a gospel that is not supported by Scripture.

J/A

לחברים היהודים שלי

©1999 by Jack T. Chick LLC

 

___________________________________________

 

 

Proof That God Loved ONLY Paul

By Kevin Jackson

What was the purpose and extent of the atonement?  Was it to merely make salvation possible for all and secure it for none?  Or was it to definitely secure salvation for Paul?  After setting aside man-centered thinking, it can be proven with certainty that Jesus died to effectually secure salvation for Paul of Tarsus, and for Paul alone.

First, take a look at Galatians 2:20. This is the most important verse in the Bible, because it explicitly states the extent of the atonement (bold mine):

“I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

This verse indisputably proves that Jesus died only for Paul.

It’s worth noting that some liberal theologians have referenced other passages in vain philosophical attempts to apply the atonement to others for whom it was not intended. These heretics fail to make an important distinction.  Ambiguous verses should always be interpreted in the light of more explicit verses. Galatians 2:20 clearly limits the scope of the atonement to only Paul.  Other less clear passages should be interpreted accordingly.  If Galatians 2:20 was the only verse that declared the extent of the atonement, the heretics might have a point. By God’s providence, it is not. Let’s study some additional passages.

In Matthew 18:12 we learn that the shepherd purposed to save one sheep. In fact he abandoned 99 sheep to save the one (bold mine):

“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?“

The text is clear.  The shepherd found and saved only one sheep.  He left the 99 other sheep on the hills. By doing this the shepherd maximized his glory. Moreover, he increased the appreciation and adoration of Paul, whom was effectually retrieved. If other sheep had also been retrieved, it would have diluted the value of the shepherd’s act.

To make his point extra clear, Jesus repeats the account in Luke 15:4-6 (bold mine):

“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he notleave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.”

One again, we see the shepherd saving only one sheep. He leaves the reprobate sheep in open country, puts the one sheep on his shoulders, and goes home.

Theologian James White gives additional insight on the use of the word sheep (bold mine):

“The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? Certainly not…”

Before commenting on this quote, it is necessary to exegete White’s use of the term “sheep”. To the untrained mind, it appears that White is using the word “sheep” to refer to more than one person. That is not the case. In English the word “sheep” can be singular or it can be plural.  This is defined by the context in which the word is used.

Singular example:  Look! There is one sheep over there!
Plural example:  Look! There are a boat load of sheep over there! We must be in New Zealand!

Untrained and tradition entrenched readers do not often note this subtle distinction in the usage of the word “sheep”. Nor do the misguided plural atonement heretics who resort to man centered thinking over exegesis. White’s context is plain. When he uses the phrases “the sheep” and “the sheep of Christ”, he is referring to only one sheep. White does not use the term “boat load of sheep”, nor does he refer to New Zealand. He properly defines his context by singularly stating “the sheep” (which of course we know is Paul).

Enough with vain philosophy, let’s get back to God’s word and take a look at 1 Corinthians 9:24 (bold mine):

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

Again, Paul himself writes that only he will get the prize.

Another critical passage is Acts 9:3-7 (The Damascus Road story). In it we see with clarity that Jesus chose only Paul: (bold mine)

Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”….the men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

This passage indicates that only Paul heard Jesus’ voice and saw the light from heaven. The travelers with Paul heard the voice but did not see the light. Clearly the light wasn’t intended for them because they were reprobate. Of course they would be, they were not Paul.

Philosophical Arguments Proving Atonement for Paul:
Philosophy is usually evil, however, it may be used sparingly when it is girded by God’s word.   There are three philosophical possibilities for the extent of the atonement:
1) The atonement was for everyone
2) The atonement was for no one.
3) The atonement was for Paul.

We know that #1 is false, that is universalism. We know that #2 is false because Paul was saved. Option #3 is all that is left. The atonement was for Paul.

Common objections to Atonement for Paul:

Q: What about the many passages that speak about “the world”? Isn’t the world more than Paul?

A: In light of the explicit statements of Gal 2:20 and 1 Cor 9:24, it is clear that the ambiguous passages that refer to “world” are more accurately translated as “the world of the one elect person whose name is Paul”. Remember, ambiguous passages should always be interpreted in the context of explicit ones.

Q: But doesn’t Romans 1:16 state salvation is for both Greek and Jew? How can this be the one person Paul?

A: Quit imposing your own biased interpretation on the word. Read scripture and let it speak for itself. Paul easily answers this objection in 1 Corinthians 9:20-21 “To the Jews I became like a Jew…To those not having the law I became like one not having the law…“ You see, Paul is both Jew and Greek. Romans 1:16 refers only to Paul.

Q: But what about Mark 10:45?  It says Jesus gave his life as a ransom for many.

A: Scholars are divided on the issue, but the most likely explanation is that Paul’s nickname was “Manny”.   The verse should be read as “ransom for Manny.”

Q: Okay, What about Mary, Jesus’ mother? She wasn’t Paul and yet the Bible says she was blessed.

A: What are you, some kind of closet Catholic? That line of reasoning always leads back to Rome.

Q: This whole system is not fair. If only Paul is saved, what about everyone else who perishes? This is a bum deal for everyone except Paul.

A: Paul anticipates your objection and addresses it in Romans 9:20 “Who are you oh man to talk back to God?.” In other words this may seem unfair from your man-centered view, but it is God’s sovereign choice to individually and effectually save Paul alone. This gives God more glory, and makes Paul’s salvation more valuable. Don’t talk back to God.

Q: I’m not talking back to God, I’m saying that your system unfairly distorts the character of God.

A: That’s because you’re depending on philosophy instead of scripture.  Besides, only one person usually wins the lottery too.  Do you complain about that? Sometimes no one wins the lottery and the jackpot grows even bigger. If everyone won the lottery it would dilute the value. For example if the jackpot was $1 million and 10 million people won it, they would each get only 10 cents. What a ripoff! The same principles apply to salvation. Paul hit the jackpot.

Q: But wasn’t it a waste of Jesus’ sacrifice to apply it only to Paul when it could have covered more?

A: Not at all, this was planned by divine decree before the creation of the world. Jesus blood was only intended for Paul, and it effectually secured Paul’s salvation. The atonement did not make salvation merely possible for Paul, it secured it.

Q: I don’t find this doctrine very motivating to preach the Gospel.

A: That is a straw man. Paul taught this doctrine, and he was very motivated. Besides, scripture commands us to preach the Gospel.

The Decrees of God

By Dr Elisha Weismann

God’s Decrees
______________

Here is a list of all the decrees listed in the Bible. How do they stack up to what Calvinism says? How many decrees are there about predestination or election? How many of them were actually spoken by God? And how many of them were given in eternity instead of in time? Also, note there are a few things that God decreed that are NOT ETERNAL (Psalm 148:6 for example). Following are all of the decrees listed (decree, decrees, decreed) followed by a short summary of only 7 decrees of which are made by God. The definition of “decrees” as alleged by Calvinism and Reformed Theology is clearly not that which is shown from the Bible.
DECREE

2Ch 30:5 So they established a decree to make proclamation throughout all Israel, from Beersheba even to Dan, that they should come to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel at Jerusalem: for they had not done [it] of a long [time in such sort] as it was written.

Ezr 5:13 But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon [the same] king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God

Ezr 5:17 Now therefore, if [it seem] good to the king, let there be search made in the king’s treasure house, which [is] there at Babylon, whether it be [so], that a decree was made of Cyrus the king to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send his pleasure to us concerning this matter.

Ezr 6:1   Then Darius the king made a decree, and search was made in the house of the rolls, where the treasures were laid up in Babylon.

Ezr 6:3 In the first year of Cyrus the king [the same] Cyrus the king made a decree [concerning] the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, [and] the breadth thereof threescore cubits;

Ezr 6:8 Moreover I make a decree what ye shall do to the elders of these Jews for the building of this house of God: that of the king’s goods, [even] of the tribute beyond the river, forthwith expenses be given unto these men, that they be not hindered.

Ezr 6:11 Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this.

Ezr 7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and [of] his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

Ezr 7:21 And I, [even] I Artaxerxes the king, do make a decree to all the treasurers which [are] beyond the river, that whatsoever Ezra the priest, the scribe of the law of the God of heaven, shall require of you, it be done speedily,

Est 1:20 And when the king’s decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,) all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.

Est 2:8 So it came to pass, when the king’s commandment and his decree was heard, and when many maidens were gathered together unto Shushan the palace, to the custody of Hegai, that Esther was brought also unto the king’s house, to the custody of Hegai, keeper of the women.

Est 3:15 The posts went out, being hastened by the king’s commandment, and the decree was given in Shushan the palace. And the king and Haman sat down to drink; but the city Shushan was perplexed

Est 4:3 And in every province, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, [there was] great mourning among the Jews, and fasting, and weeping, and wailing; and many lay in sackcloth and ashes.

lEst 4:8 Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew [it] unto Esther, and to declare [it] unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people.

Est 8:14 [So] the posts that rode upon mules [and] camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king’s commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace.

Est 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them

Est 9:1 Now in the twelfth month, that [is], the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king’s commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them;)

Est 9:13 Then said Esther, If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews which [are] in Shushan to do to morrow also according unto this day’s decree, and let Haman’s ten sons be hanged upon the gallows

Est 9:14 And the king commanded it so to be done: and the decree was given at Shushan; and they hanged Haman’s ten sons.

Est 9:32 And the decree of Esther confirmed these matters of Purim; and it was written in the book

Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psa 148:6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass

Pro 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Isa 10:1  Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;

Jer 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand [for] the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Dan 2:9 But if ye will not make known unto me the dream, [there is but] one decree for you: for ye have prepared lying and corrupt words to speak before me, till the time be changed: therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that ye can shew me the interpretation thereof.

Dan 2:13 And the decree went forth that the wise [men] should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.

Dan 2:15 He answered and said to Arioch the king’s captain, Why [is] the decree [so] hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.

Dan 3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

Dan 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill: because there is no other God that can deliver after this sort.

Dan 4:6 Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise [men] of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.

Dan 4:17 This matter [is] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Dan 4:24 This [is] the interpretation, O king, and this [is] the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

Dan 6:7 All the presidents of the kingdom, the governors, and the princes, the counsellors, and the captains, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to make a firm decree, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions.

Dan 6:8 Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not

Dan 6:9 Wherefore king Darius signed the writing and the decree.

Dan 6:12 Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king’s decree; Hast thou not signed a decree, that every man that shall ask [a petition] of any God or man within thirty days, save of thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing [is] true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.

Dan 6:13 Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which [is] of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day.

Dan 6:15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians [is], That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.

Dan 6:26 I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he [is] the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion [shall be even] unto the end.

Jon 3:7 And he caused [it] to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:

Mic 7:11 [In] the day that thy walls are to be built, [in] that day shall the decree be far removed.

Zep 2:2 Before the decree bring forth, [before] the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD’S anger come upon you.

Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

**************
DECREES
**************
Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness [which] they have prescribed;

Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Act 17:7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, [one] Jesus.

**************
DECREED
**************

Est 2:1  After these things, when the wrath of king Ahasuerus was appeased, he remembered Vashti, and what she had done, and what was decreed against her.

Est 9:31 To confirm these days of Purim in their times [appointed], according as Mordecai the Jew and Esther the queen had enjoined them, and as they had decreed for themselves and for their seed, the matters of the fastings and their cry.

Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed [place], and set bars and doors,

Isa 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, [yet] a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

1Cr 7:37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

****************

There are 7 decrees from God. Job 28:26 (about rain); Job 38:10 and Proverbs 8:29 (about the sea); Psalm 2:7 (about Jesus Christ); Psalm 148:6 (about the heavens); Isaiah 10:22 (about consumption surround a remnant of Israel) Jeremiah 5:22 (about the sand) and Daniel 4:24 (about Nebuchadnezzar).

None of these decrees mention anything about election or predestination, none of them show that God has ONE decree, and none of them are made in eternity, but made IN TIME. Furthermore, in Psalm 148:6, God makes a decree that is TEMPORARY because in 2 Peter 3:12 these things will be burned up.

Of such decrees when the Calvinist is forced to explain that which is not explicit in their view of “decrees”, Laurence Vance writes, “Unconditional Election is pawned off as the secret counsel of God that can’t be understood. Yet untold volumes have been written by Calvinists on the subject. So if the decree of predestination is a secret doctrine, how do the Calvinists know so much about it?…In the Bible however, the misappropriation of the decrees of God by the Calvinists is no laughing matter: “Woe unto them the decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed”. The Other Side of Calvinism, page 256.

___________________________________________

Rebuttal to Fred Butler’s Objection to this article here

Are Christians Sinners? Refuting Dan Corner

Dan Corner is a popular “holiness” preacher that rejects eternal security, and labels all who believe in “once saved, always saved” as heretics. Dan Corner has written an 800 page book on conditional security which rehashes many of the proof texts used by hyper-Arminians and Pentacostals to refute eternal security by mis-characterizing eternal security and what it means, and accusing those who believe it of promoting a license to sin. Ironically, he levies many of these charges against independent Baptists who are so often accused of legalism because of our emphasis on righteous living and standards. Thus, it is laughable that Corner renders such an accusation against Baptists that we promote licensure for sin.

In reviewing his videos on the subject of eternal security, I discovered a video where Corner also espouses to the heresy that Christians are not sinners. This is a popular view of the Nazarene denominations who believe that a believer receives a “second blessing” that gives them complete victory over sin.

Dan Corner accuses Christians who believe that even Christians are still sinners of being deceived by Satan to promote sin.  Dan asks “is everyone in the Bible a sinner? Answer: No.” According to Corner, there are only sinners or saints, either righteous or unrighteous. Don sites as evidence Luke 15:7 which reads,

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Corner notes the difference between the 99 righteous and the one lost, and that the 99 need no repentance, thus if a Christian claims to be a sinner, he needs to repent.

Corner then quotes 1 Peter 4:18, “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” Corner argues that because Peter contrasts the ungodly against the righteous, that this proves Christians are not sinners. Corner opines “Jesus said, ‘I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32). Corner then states that a Christian can become a sinner again after being saved, and cites James 5:20 “Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”, and thus, a Christian can become a sinner again who needs to repent again to be saved (also relying on Romans 11:19).

Corner then attempts to explain away 1 Timothy 1:15 where Paul says he is chief of sinners that Paul is explaining his pre-conversion.

Now, Corner is correct in the fact that ultimately, there are only 2 classes of “haves” and “have nots”. But Corner has created a gross caricature and straw man of what eternal security proponents believe about being sinners, and offers views that conflict with his own theology. Corner has applied some very egregious methods of hermeneutics in his analysis of the believer verses his sin nature, and fails to observe that once a believer is saved, his sin nature is still attached. This could not be anymore clear than in Galations 5:16-17, and Romans chapters 6-7.

 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Paul shows above in Galations 5:16-17 that both the Spirit AND the flesh work in the believer concurrently. Paul further makes this abundantly clear in Romans 6:1, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?”. Paul clearly shows that a believer can continue in sin, but that he should not because of grace. Paul states that we are freed from sin and thus should not serve it. Yet Paul still says “WE” should not serve sin because we are dead to the old man and baptized into Christ. Paul does not eliminate the possibility that the believer while being a believer can serve the flesh. Romans 6:16.

Corner does not recognize the difference between being declared judicially righteous which removes the judgment of sin and  eliminates us as sinners positionally in Christ, but does not eliminate our being sinners experientially.

 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:7

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul showed that he delighted in the law of God after the inward man, which shows this passage is NOT about Paul’s life before conversion (as some have erroneously suggested). But noted a continual present tense manner in which sin still affected him.

Naturally, Corner attempts to offer a preemptive explanation of a verse that clearly refutes his doctrine in 1 Timothy 1:15 which states, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I AM chief.” Corner simply attributes this passage to Paul’s pre-conversion, but that’s not what the verse says. Paul did not say “of whom I WAS chief”, Paul said of “whom I AM chief”.

Corner’s reliance on Luke 15:7 is equally gruesome. Jesus is not referring to a believer that loses salvation and then repents again but of a lost Jew that has never put their faith in Christ in the first place. Jesus is referring to a person getting positionally right with Christ, and is not referring to the the sinful experiences that are still present in the believer after they are saved. Luke 15:7 serves instead to refute Corner’s view that a believer would ever have to repent again for salvation. If a believer is not a sinner that never needs to repent, then how could he possibly lose his salvation?

This brings up another point. If a Christian is not a sinner, then how could he ever backslide and become lost? If a Christian is no longer a sinner, then he must no longer possess the ability to sin, yet if he does not have the ability to sin, then common sense should show Mr. Corner that he would not be able to backslide into salvation-forfeiting apostasy or sin.

Luke 5:32 is equally as comparable to Luke 15:7 where Christ is again, not referring to a believer already in Christ, but a person who has never been in Christ in the first place. Also, these verse are in contrast not to truly righteous persons but to SELF RIGHTEOUS Pharisees. Jesus was not emphasizing a comparison between saved and lost, but that He did not come to call those who thought they possessed righteousness of their own. Luke 15:2, Luke 5:30 (for cross reference that explains this, see also Luke 13:2).

Corner views James 5:20 as a believer that falls from the faith to show that a believer can become a sinner again. But that’s not what James 5:20 says. James does not say if you see a brother lose his salvation then if you reconvert him you will save a soul from death. James 1:1 shows that the audience are to 12 TRIBES OF JEWS scattered abroad. The Greek word used for brother, adelphos, also means those of a racial or national ancestry. James is referring to his brothers as flesh and blood Israelites, and if a believer converts an unbelieving Jew to Christ he saves a soul from death. There is also a dispensational element of James that does not apply to the church age, which as with Hebrews, we will save for another discussion. But the fact that the Jews rejected Christ, Paul stopped preaching to them Acts 18:6 and stated Israel as a nation was under blindness. Romans 11:25-26. So certainly, James was not referring to the 12 tribes as believers, but is referring to believers who convert unbelieving Jews.

Furthermore, Corner has taken Romans 11:19-20 entirely out of its context.  Romans 11:19-20. Corner here makes the same mistake that the Calvinists make in attributing Romans 9-11 to individual salvation instead of what the context is actually about, the grafting in of the Gentiles into the spiritual promises that Israel AS A NATION rejected, and then the future fulfillment of a remnant of Israelites who inherit the physical promises of the birthright through Ephraim of which the Gentile church is not privy to. Paul is giving the same admonition to Gentiles AS A WHOLE that Jesus spoke of against Israel in Matthew 23:37-39. Israel boasted of being the recipients of blessings merely because they were born in Abraham and Paul and Christ both affirmed that is not how it works (John 1:12-13, Romans 2:17-29). And likewise, a Gentile does not get in simply because he is a Gentile. Ultimately, the Gentiles as a whole have had as much time to receive Christ as did Israel (2,000 years) and thus the time of the Gentiles has reached it’s apex, and the time is near where Israel again becomes the focus. The Gentiles as a whole, have committed exactly what Paul said, and will be “un-grafted” from the opportunity to be the light to the world and recipients of the gospel offer until it is presented by JEWS during the tribulation (Rev 7:4-8, Rev 11:3-4, Rev 14:6). Thus this passage is not referring to individual Gentiles anymore than Romans 9-11 was referring to individual Jews or any individual element of salvation.

Corner’s reliance on 1 Peter 4:18 is also out of context. Peter here is referencing the sufferings of believers, and admonishes those who suffer as Christians to be happy. Yet Peter also says that a Christian can suffer as a thief or even a murderer (v. 15). Now that fact may seem to be preposterous to Corner, but being a murderer is spoken of in the same context as being a busybody in other men’s matters. So if a Christian can burn in hell for resorting to murder, he can also go to hell for gossiping and sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong. The contrast that Peter shows here actually proves that a Christian can sin. Peter gives an example of such a wayward believer that would make Corner have a Pentacostal snake seizure. Peter in describing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, explains the following about the salvation of Lot,

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:” 2 Peter 2:6-9

Peter showed that even though Lot was immoral, he still spared Lot and the angels literally drug Lot out of the city. Yet in all of Lot’s sin, he was still referred to by Peter as a “righteous man” with a “righteous soul”, and was used as an example of God’s ability to deliver the GODLY from temptation even though Lot was told the night before to leave, and did not, and had to be dragged out by the hand out of the city. Genesis 19:12-16. Even after Lot finally went to another city, Lot allowed his daughters to get him drunk and produce the Moabites and Ammonites with them.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (a proof text often sited by hyper-Arminians and those who believe one can lose salvation) makes it clear that one can not be out of Christ and then back in again, and if they could be, then they could never repent again and be re-placed back into Christ anyway. Although Hebrews 6:4-6 is directed specifically to tribulation Jews, the concept is still the same that IF a person could lose their salvation they could not repent again and be saved. (The relevance of this passage as pertaining to tribulation Jews will not be expounded upon in this article.)

As Christians, we still sin against the brethren (1 Corinthians 8:12), we can sin by unresolved anger (Eph 4:26) and we are to rebuke other believers who engage in blatant sin (1 Tim 5:20). John says in 1 John 2:28,

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Now if a Christian can not sin, then how could he possibly be ashamed when Christ comes? This also goes to show that there will be Christians who stand before Christ that will regret not having lived for Him and will lose rewards (1 Cor 3:15). How can a Christian lose rewards without losing his salvation? Would not the same acts necessary to lose rewards be the same acts that would jeopardize a believers salvation? And yet the believer in 1 Corinthians 3 only loses rewards but not salvation. The very existence of a system of rewards that can be gained or lost annihilates Corner’s views against eternal security or that a believer can still be a sinner.

We will deal with Corner’s book against eternal security/once saved-always saved, in another segment although we have  touched the surface of it in this section. But suffice it to say that Corner has completely misinterpreted Scripture that has nothing to do with a believer being righteous and then having to repent unto salvation again. He has ignored the differences in the Bible that show a believer’s positional and judicial righteousness in Christ that has delivered us from the penalty, the indwelling of that Holy Spirit that gives us the ability to refrain from the power of sin, and his experiential nature that still has not been delivered from the presence of sin. Corner makes the categorical error of ascribing the unsaved persons sin nature to the sinful actions of Christians, and slanders Christians that maintain they are sinners as a verb, to what an unsaved person is by noun. An unsaved person sins because he is a sinner and chooses to act out of sinful nature in rebellion against God;, a Christian is a sinner because he sins, and that is the fundamental difference between the two because the Christian is declared righteous by God but still sins, and thus is in the verb sense a sinner, but not in the noun sense as an unbeliever.

The Christian is not exempt from chastisement when he sins, and certainly being saved is not a license to sin. But thanks to God IF we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1, and were sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment we received Christ. Eph 1:13, that it is HE that performs the work in us until the day of Christ. Phil 1:6, and having begun in the Spirit we can not be perfected by the flesh. Gal 3:3.

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 1 Timothy 1:12.

_______________________________

Dr. James Ach and Dr. Elisha Weismann

Jocelyn Zichterman Group Uses Chuck Phelps Family Tragedy To Bash IFB

Just when I thought that Jocelyn Zichterman’s “IFB Cult Survivors” group couldn’t get any more pathetic, I was sent a post from their group page which essentially uses the tragedy of a bus accident in Indianapolis, Indiana that claimed the lives of several people from an Indiana Baptist church as an opportunity to rehash accusations against Chuck Phelps who lost 2 children in the accident and further vilify the fundamental Baptists.

While I am certainly not a fan of Chuck Phelps’ theology, and understand the ire against Chuck Phelps for his alleged* role in the cover up of the rape of Tina Anderson, to use the deaths of his children-who had nothing to do with any of Chuck Phelps actions-to slander Baptists and affirm that such actions were some kind of poetic justice is disgusting. Some of the group even went so far as to accuse Chuck Phelps of child molestation, and to my knowledge that is the first time that accusation has ever been leveled against Phelps.

The vitriol was started by Jon Weaver who reasoned that since Chuck Phelps had no compassion for Tina Anderson, then he has no compassion for Chuck Phelps. Not even Tina Anderson herself shared the sentiment of the members of Jocelyn Zichterman’s anti-Christian group [1] Even Darrell Dow of Stuff Fundies Like had the decency to avoid using this tragedy as an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon of those who hate Phelps. Dow wrote,

We’ve had harsh words in the past for Chuck Phelps but today I hope we can set those things aside and weep with those who weep. Nobody deserves to lose a child, a brother, a sister, a father or mother this way. Anyone who would follow the darker angels of their nature to find some sense of retribution here runs the risk of losing both their humanity and my sympathy.

Almighty God, look with pity upon the sorrows of those for whom we pray. Remember them, Lord, in your mercy; nourish them with patience; comfort them with a sense of your goodness; lift up your countenance upon them; and give them peace; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Melissa “God is a sick bastard” Fletcher, the sister of Jocelyn Zichterman and administrator of the group stated that, ” I had the same feeling Jon. It sounds heartless but I don’t have any sympathy for Chuck Phelps” as a follow up to Jon quoting a Stuff Fundies Like member, where Jon pens the following,

If I still believed in god, I would consider the following quote prophetic. Stuff Fundies Like “Tiarali April 23, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Chuck Phelps makes me sick. I’m just so thankful that the Lord sees his heart. He will be held accountable for his evil deeds one day. Not soon enough, though.”

Another blogger, Delaine Rae said,

When I heard about Chuck’s son dying, I fell back into the IFB mindset of everything bad being a direct punishment for your own sin. The good person in me feels bad just writing off 3 deaths and children being caught up in this, but then again, I learned to connect dots by the most imaginatively cruel people in existence.

Now I don’t know what church Ms. Rae has been to, but I know of no IFB church that holds that “everything bad” that happens to a believer is punishment for sin. I have debunked that sentiment on this site several times from those of a fatalist and deterministic persuasion, yet no Baptist I know of who is familiar with the book of Job plays the role of Job’s friends and lays all blame for personal tragedies on the sins of others.

It is sad and pathetic that groups like this that claim that the IFB is a “cult” display such a gross caricature of IFB churches, and use the tragedy suffered by someone they hate as a catalyst for further anti Christian rhetoric.

Our prayers go out to Chuck Phelps and his family, and the other families who lost their lives that day in Indiana. And for our critics who don’t like that sentiment, I hope your computer gets infested with a hundred viruses.

______________________________________________________________

*Since Chuck Phelps was not convicted of any conspiracy in the event surrounding Tina Anderson, we are legally obligated to state that the accusations against Phelps are “alleged”. Chuck Phelps has written an exhaustive explanation for these events at http://www.drchuckphelps.com/

James White Dishonesty About Westcott & Hort, USB Welcomes Pope Francis

By Will Kinney

Is James White right about Westcott and Hort and the modern “Vatican Versions”?

Are the modern versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET,  Holman Standard etc. still based on the Westcott and Hort Revised Greek critical Text?

The short answer is an absolute and unequivocal Yes, they are.

Some proponents of today’s new Vatican Versions like  James White try to distance themselves from Westcott and Hort because so much information has come out documenting the beliefs and apostasy of these two men who are primarily responsible for the critical Greek text that underlies such modern versions as the ESV, NIV, NASB.

In his book, the King James Only Controversy, James White makes some interesting and contradictory statements regarding Westcott and Hort. On page 33 Mr. White writes: “Westcott and Hort used Sinaiticus and Vaticanus  to produce their New Testament, a work that displaced the text used by the KJV, later known as the Textus Receptus, in scholarly studies.”

Note: Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are the so called “oldest and best manuscripts” by those who promote the UBS, Nestle-Aland Critical Greek text that underlies the N.T. of such modern versions as the ESV, NIV, NASB and the modern Catholic versions like the St. Joseph NAB 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985 as well.

Then on page 99 Mr. White writes: “KJV Only advocates love to hate B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort. Westcott and Hort’s work on the Greek New Testament is seen as a focal point of the attempt to “dethrone” the KJV and its underlying Greek text, the Textus Receptus. While modern Greek texts ARE NOT IDENTICAL to that created by Westcott and Hort, one will still find defenders of the AV drawing in black and white, saying that all modern versions are based on their work.”

James White further mixes truth with error when he writes on page 122 – “In the sense that Westcott and Hort correctly identified the need to examine the relationships of manuscripts, and demonstrated that it is simply not enough to COUNT manuscripts, but instead we must WEIGH manuscripts (some manuscripts being more important than other witnesses to the original text), one can say that MODERN TEXTS ARE BASED UPON THEIR WORK. [Caps are mine]  However, modern textual criticism HAS GONE FAR BEYOND Westcott and Hort, and has in MANY INSTANCES corrected imbalances in their own conclusions.” [Caps are mine].

James White is on the one hand admitting that the W.H. text “displaced the text used by the KJV (his own words) but is now trying to make it sound as though the modern versions are “in many instances” different from the W.H. text.  This is simply not true.  The Westcott Hort critical Greek text is virtually the same as that of the present day UBS/ Nestle-Aland critical Greek texts.  They have only changed in very minor ways.   The same 45 to 50 entire verses of the New Testament are either omitted from the text or called into question, and about 2000 additional words that are either omitted, changed or added are virtually the same as the Westcott Hort critical text that appeared in the English Revised Version of 1881.  Mr. White is most definitely fudging the truth here.

David Cloud writes: “While today’s textual scholars do not always admit that they follow Westcott and Hort, many of the more honest ones do admit that they are powerfully influenced by the these men.

Bruce Metzger is probably the most influential textual critic alive. He is one of the editors of the United Bible Societies Greek New
Testament and the author of many widely-used books on textual criticism. In his 1981 book The Westcott and Hort Greek New
Testament-Yesterday and Today, Metzger makes the following plain admission: “The International committee that produced the United Bible Societies’ Greek New Testament, NOT ONLY ADOPTED THE WESTCOTT AND HORT EDITION AS ITS BASIC TEXT, BUT FOLLOWED THEIR METHODOLOGY IN GIVING ATTENTION TO BOTH EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL CONSIDERATION” (Metzger, cited by James Brooks, Bible Interpreters of the 20th Century, p. 264).

In light of this admission by such a prominent textual authority, James White needs to explain for his readers why he condemns King James Bible defenders for claiming that Westcott-Hort are still followed.

Brooks further states, “There is nothing unique about Metzger’s theory of textual criticism. It is simply a refinement of Westcott
and Hort’s theory in the New Testament in the Original Greek (1881). . . this theory is dominant today in part because of Metzger’s great influence. It was the theory employed in producing the United Bible Societies Greek text. It is the theory lying behind the Greek text used by most modern versions: The Revised Standard, the New Revised Standard, the New English Bible, the Revised English Bible, the New American Bible, the New American Standard, the Good News Bible, the New International Version, and to a lesser extent, also the Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible” (Ibid.)

In the introduction to the 24th edition of Nestle’s Greek New Testament, editors Erwin Nestle and Kurt Aland make the following
admission:  “Thus THE TEXT, BUILT UP ON THE WORK OF THE 19TH CENTURY, HAS REMAINED AS A WHOLE UNCHANGED, particularly since the research of recent years has not yet led to the establishment of a generally acknowledged N.T. text” (Erwin Nestle and Kurt Aland, Novum Testamentum Graece, 24th edition, 1960, p. 62).

James White is failing to acknowledge a fact that modern textual authorities such as Metzger, Colwell, and Nestle do acknowledge-that Westcott and Hort are key, pivotal men in the modern history of textual criticism and that the current “eclectic” Greek New Testaments continue to reflect, for the most part, the decisions made by Westcott and Hort. To deny their influence is similar to denying the influence of Darwin on contemporary evolutionary thought.” (End of quotes by David Cloud)

Rather than just mere allegations, you can see for yourself the textual changes made by Westcott and Hort and then compare them to the modern Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB and the modern Catholic Versions.  They are all based on the same UBS/Nestle-Aland Critical Greek text that is the result of a formal agreement with the Vatican to create an “interconfessional” text for the New Testament. (More about this later)

See Westcott and Hort’s Magic Marker Binge Parts One and Two. And then compare the W.H. text to today’s new Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB and the modern Catholic Versions.  Does this look like Mr. White is being truthful when he says: “modern Greek texts ARE NOT IDENTICAL to that created by Westcott and Hort.”?

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html

Now on to Westcott and Hort’s Magic Marker Binge!  Here are just some of the textual changes (usually omissions) that Westcott and Hort made to the Reformation text of the King James Bible. Compare the modern UBS/Nestle-Aland critical text versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB and the modern Catholic versions like the St. Joseph New American bible 1970 and New Jerusalem bible 1985  to this list and see if they are not virtually the same.

Matthew

1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
13:51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Mark

1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
1:31 And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.
2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.
7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
14:68 But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
15:28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
16:9-20 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

(typically marginalized or set in brackets. The RSV completely omitted these verses from the text. The NIV 2011 now sets them apart from the rest of the chapter and puts them in smaller italicized print.)

Luke

1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
11:2-4 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
22:64 And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
23:17 (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

John

1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
5:3-4 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

7:53-8:11 And every man went unto his own house.
8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
(Westcott and Hort put all 12 verses in Double Brackets, indicating they did not consider them to be inspired Scripture. The UBS/Nestle-Aland text does the same.  The liberal RSV omitted these verses from the text. The ESV, NASB and St. Joseph NAB bracket them and the NIV 2011 now sets them apart by lines from the rest of the text and puts them in smaller italicized print.)

11:41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Acts

2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins,according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
9:5-6 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him,Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
10:6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
23:9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees’ part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.
24:6-8 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, Commanding his accusers to come unto thee: by examining of whom thyself mayest take knowledge of all these things, whereof we accuse him.
24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
28:16 And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard: but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him.
28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Romans

1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

1 Corinthians

5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof:
11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
16:22-23 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christbe with you.

2 Corinthians

4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Galatians

3:1  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Ephesians

3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Philippians

3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Colossians

1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
3:6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1 Thessalonians

1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

2 Thessalonians

1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy

1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit,in faith, in purity.
6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy

1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

Titus

1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon

1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
1:12 Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels:

Hebrews

1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession,Christ Jesus;
7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

1 Peter

1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
5:10-11 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

2 Peter

2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

1 John

1:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Jude

1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Revelation

1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven,from the throne, saying, It is done.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

And these are only PARTS of the words that have been omitted or added to the texts that underlie the King James Bible. You can see a more complete list here –

”Is it true that all Bible versions are 99.5% the same?”

http://brandplucked.webs.com/arebibles995same.htm

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BELIEFS OF WESTCOTT AND HORT?

Once again, in his book, The KJV Controversy, James White makes a feeble attempt to defend the character and beliefs of Westcott and Hort.  Mr. White writes on page 244-245 “Question: Weren’t Westcott and Hort occultists (evil men, heretics, closet Roman Catholics, and any number of other accusations)?”

“Answer: B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort were not fundamental Baptists. Then again, neither were any of the KJV translators…Both were professing Christians. Both professed faith in the deity of Christ, His saving death, His resurrection.  Were they perfect men? No, they were not. Neither were the KJV translators….But were they terrible evil men, plotting with others in a grand conspiracy to overthrow God’s truth and lead everyone down the path to destruction? Such is utterly ridiculous….They are remembered as men who, while not perfect, recognized particular truths about the transmission of the New Testament text that have been verified by many who have come after them.  They are not idolized or worshiped, but are treated as all other scholars: their work is appreciated, reviewed, and where necessary, corrected.”  James White.

So, in spite of Mr. James White’s glowing recommendations of his fellow “scholars” and their textual work, let’s take a look at some hard facts about what these men actually believed.  These documented quotes are readily available all over the internet and in hard print in several books.

In 1896, a collection of Hort’s letters was published by his son in two volumes. The book entitled “Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort” by his son Arthur Fenton Hort.

In Vol. 1 on page 76 we read:  “The pure Romish view seems to me nearer, and more likely to lead to, the truth than the Evangelical”

On page 148, Hort said:  “…the ordinary confused evangelical notions, tho’ I would on no account alter the prayer book of catechism to make them more palatable to them.”

On page 400, Hort admits that: “The positive doctrines even of the evangelicals seem to me perverted rather than untrue. There are, I fear, still serious differences between us on the subject of authority, and especially the authority of the Bible,”

On page 445, Hort says: “I have a sort of craving that our text should be cast upon the world before we deal with matters likely to brand us with suspicion. I mean, a text, issued by men already known for what will undoubtedly be treated as dangerous heresy, will have great difficulties in finding its way to regions which it might otherwise hope to reach, and whence it would not be easily banished by subsequent alarms.”

Hort shows his hatred for the TRUE Greek Text on page 211, were he states: “I had no idea till last few weeks of the importance of texts, having read so little Greek Testament, and dragged on with the villainous Textus Receptus.Westcott recommented me to get Bagster’s Critical, which has Scholz’s Text, and is most convenient in small quarto, with parallel Greek and English, and a wide margin on purpose for notes. This pleased me much; so many little alterations on good MS. authority made things clear not in a vulgar, notional way, but by giving a deeper and fuller meaning. But after all Scholz is very capricious and sparing in intorducing good readings; and Tischendorf I find a great acquisition, above all, because he gives various readings at the bottom of his page, and his prolegomena are invaluable. Think of that vile Textus Receptus leaning entirely on late MSS; it is a blessing there are such early ones…”

In a letter to Westcott, Hort says on Page 430: “Certainly nothing can be more unscriptural than the modern limiting of Christ’s bearing our sins and suffering to His death; but indeed that is only one aspect of an almost universal heresey.”

On page 120, Hort declars: “The fact is, I do not see how God’s justice can be satisfied without every man’s suffering in his own person the full penalty for his sins. I know that it can, for if it could not in the case of some at least, the whole Bible would be a lie; but if in the case of some, why not in the case of all?”

Hort clearly did not believe that the death of Jesus on the cross was not enough to pay for his sins!!!

What about WESTCOTT, what did he believe?

In 1903, Westcott’s son “Arthur Westcott” published his fathers letters in a two volume book entitled, “Life and Letters of Brooke Foss Westcott.”

On pages 228-229, Westcott told Hort what he thought of the Textus Receptus: “I feel most keenly the disgrace of circulating what I feel to be falsified copies of the Holy Scripture, and am most anxious to provide something to replace them.”

On page 52, Westcott said “I never read an account of a miracle but I seem instinctively to feel its improbability, and discover some want of evidence in the account of it.”

In volume 2, on page 49 Westcott gives his view on Heaven, he writes “..it saves us from the error of connecting the presence of Christ’s glorified humanity with place: ‘heaven is a state and not a place.’ I cannot therefore but think that you should require the most exact rending of the whole.”

On page 394, Westcott states: “If Tennyson’s idea of heaven was true, that ‘heaven is the ministry of the soul to soul,’ we may reasonably hope, by patient, resolute, faithful, united endeavour, to find heaven about us here, the glory of our earthly life.”

Westcott shows his love for ROMAN CATHOLICISM on page 81, when he writes: “After leaving the monastery we shaped our course to a little oratory which we discovered on the summit of neighbouring hill, and by a little scrambling we reached it. Fortunately we found the door open. It is very small, with one kneeling–place; and behind a screen was a “Pietà” the size of life (i.e. a virgin and dead Christ). The sculpture was painted, and such a group in such a place and at such a time was deeply impressive. I could not help thinking on the fallen grandeur of the Romish Church, on her zeal even in error, on her earnestness and self-devotion, which we might nobler views and a purer end, strive to imitate. Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours.”

Occultists, Spiritualist and Satanists commend the textual work of Westcott and Hort and despise the King James Bible.

Many of these quotations can be found on the internet and in their own books.  Brothers Brian Sirois and David Cloud have put many of them together in their articles on this subject.  Here are some of them.

Helena P. Blavatsky was deeply into spiritism and communication with the dead. She was the founder of the Theosophical Society. She also attended the “Ghostly Guild” meetings with Westcott and Hort, along with Charles Darwin. In her books Isis Unveiled Volumes 1 and 2 and The Secret Doctrine Volumes 1 and 2, Blavatsky says: “We have the Bible in truth in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.” And she goes on to say: “Westcott and Hort were true scholars that corrected the errors in previous versions.”

Madame Blavatsky also said: “Now that the ‘Revised Version’ of the gospels has been published by Westcott and Hort, and the most glaring mistranlations of the old version, the King James, are corrected, one will better understand the words. The text of the English Protestant Bible is in disagreement as usual with the Alexandrian text. That which for nearly 1500 years was opposed  on Christianism of a book which every word was written under direct supervision of the Holy Ghost; of which not one syllable or comma could be changed without Sacrilege, but now is being retranslated, revised and corrected and clipped of whole verses, and in some cases almost entire chapters.  And as soon as the new edition is out, its doctors Westcott and Hort will have us accept it as new revelation of the 19th century. And the King James translators have made such a jumble of it, that no one but an occultist can restore the Bible to its original form.” (H.P. Blavatsky, on the Bible, Isis Unveiled.)

Throughout her writings, Madame Blavatsky continually makes comments about the “wonderful scholarship” of Westcott and Hort and seems to take pot shots at the King James Bible whenever she can.  She writes: “the Revised Version does not repeat the mistakes of the Authorized Version.”  – “In the King James version, as it stands translated, it has no resemblance to the original.” (Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled) 

And here is a real whopper of a lie when she writes:  – “Add to this fact that out of the forty-seven translators of the King James Bible, only three understood Hebrew… and one may easily understand what reliance can be placed on the English version of the bible.  Now the Revised Version of the gospels has been published and the most glaring mistranslations of the old version are corrected, one will understand better the words in St. John.” (The Secret Doctrine, 1888)

One has to wonder what an avowed Satanist’s interest would be in the Bible in the first place and why she would so highly praise the likes of Westcott and Hort and so despise the King James Bible. Quite telling, isn’t it.

Brian Sirois documents for us that some of the immediate followers of Madame Blavatsky also claimed to be under the control of spirits through automatic writing and other methods.  He writes: “In 1891, Annie Besant (1847-1933) succeeded Blavatsky as head of the Theosophical Society. From 1889 until Blavatsky’s death in 1891, Besant was a co-editor of the Theosophical Society’s “Lucifer Magazine.”  Besant and her associates hated the King James Bible.  They write: “The English translation (Authorized Version, KJV) is  wretchedly imperfect. Errors abound in it, and some of them are of a most laughable description.  On this account great callss have been made for the new translation” (Charles Bradlaugh, Annie Wood Besant, Charles Watts. The Freethinker’s Text book.)

Brian also documents that later Theosophical writings continued to attack the King James Bible. “…the English translation called the Authorized Version…while it is dear to the English people…yet lacks entirely the proper spirit of the mystical Hebrew original; and the very fact that Englishmen love their King James Version so much distracts their attention away from the original Mystical sense of the Hebrew scriptures.  Go then to the original tongue…” (Lucifer Magazine, January to December, 1930)

The Vatican Connection-

Well, what about today?  What is the true nature of most of these modern versions that NOBODY seriously believes are the infallible words of God. You may be very surprised at what you are about to see, but it is all documented in black and white and there is simply no way to rationally deny it. Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET etc. are in fact the result of a formal agreement with the Vatican to produce an interconfessional text that will ever be in the process of change.  Here are their own words.

http://brandplucked.webs.com/realcatholicbibles.htm

Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET etc. are  the new “Vatican Versions”

“Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth..is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit…and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication…Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins” Revelation 17:2-5; 18:2-4

I have a copy of the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece 27th edition right here in front of me. It is the same Greek text as the UBS (United Bible Society) 4th edition. These are the Greek readings and texts that are followed by such modern versions as the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard AND the new Catholic versions like the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985.

If you have a copy of the Nestle-Aland 27th edition, open the book and read what they tell us in their own words on page 45 of the Introduction. Here these critical Greek text editors tell us about how the Greek New Testament (GNT, now known as the UBS) and the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece grew together and shared the same basic text.

In the last paragraph on page 45 we read these words: “The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships. It should naturally be understood that this text is a working text: it is not to be considered as definitive, but as a stimulus to further efforts toward defining and verifying the text of the New Testament.”

There it is folks, in their own words. They openly admit that this text is the result of an agreement between the Vatican and the UBS and that the text itself is not “definitive” – it can change, as it already has and will do so in the future, and is not the infallible words of God but merely “a stimulus to further efforts”.

The United Bible Societies Vice-President is Roman Catholic Cardinal Onitsha of Nigeria. On the executive committee is Roman Catholic Bishop Alilona of Italy and among the editors is Roman Catholic Cardinal Martini of Milan. Patrick Henry happily claims, “Catholics should work together with Protestants in the fundamental task of Biblical translation …[They can] work very well together and have the same approach and interpretation … This signals a new age in the church.” – Patrick Henry, New Directions in New Testament Study (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1979), 232-234.

Here is the United Bible Societies own website where they announced in March of 2013 the news of the new Pope Francis’ longtime support of the UBS.

http://www.unitedbiblesocieties.org/news/3575-united-bible-societies-welcomes-pope-francis/ 

United Bible Societies welcomes Pope Francis

MARCH 15, 2013 – “The election of Pope Francis, ‘a long-time friend of the Bible Societies’, is an encouragement to United Bible Societies (UBS) to work even harder to make the Bible available to everyone.”

Read Part One of this study. There is a lot more solid documentation. Then go to Part Two where you can see the actual black and white Verse Comparison Charts – very easy to follow. 

Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, Holman Standard, NET, NASBs are the new “Vatican Versions”  Part TWO  

http://brandplucked.webs.com/esvcatholicpart2.htm

Return to Articles – http://brandplucked.webs.com/kjbarticles.htm

“If we would destroy the Christian religion, we must first of all destroy man’s belief in the Bible.”  Voltaire – ex French philosopher and former atheist. 

 “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”  Luke 8:8

“But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.” 1 Corinthians 14:38

[Editor’s Note: James White and many other anti KIng James Only authors have attributed much of the proliferation against the beliefs of Westcott & Hort to Gail Riplinger, author of New Age Bible Versions. But it must be kept in mind that there are many KJVO authors who are not in agreement with Riplinger on many facets of the KJVO debate, David Cloud in particular. Thus it must be emphasized that the views that Cloud and other KJVO proponents hold of Westcott & Hort can not automatically be attributed to the works of Gail Riplinger as White and others would have us believe.