Archive for April, 2013

Project For Change In Fundamentalism

Posted: April 30, 2013 in IFB

By Ryan Hayden

A few weeks ago, I posted about some problems that we young Independent Baptists face. I named five of them, and I said that personally, I was going to obey the command to “mark and avoid” the people who are guilty of those things.

I’m not satisfied with a single blog post, I really want to see some changes within fundamentalism and I can do very little by myself. I’ve been thinking of some things that could be done and came to the conclusion that a huge amount of change could happen if Pastors would take a stand on three issues:

  • abuse of the Bible
  • preacher worship
  • proud factionalism

Read the rest of the article here, and for comments, please offer them to Ryan since this is his project and article

Herbert-and-Catherine-Schaible-via-screencap-615x345Herbert and Catherine Schaible are members of the First Century Gospel Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and after refusing to take their sick child to a medical treatment facility due to belief that medicine and hospitals are not Biblical, allowed their child to die of pneumonia.

Media outlets such as the utlra liberal Huff Post, and Facebook groups such as IFB Cult Survivors are touting this as an example of fundamentalist abuse.

A few observations we want to make here.

There are 3 types of people I don’t trust:

1) A psychic that has a wreck on the way to work

2) A bald man that sells hair tonic

3) A faith healer that wears glasses

First of all, First Century Gospel Church is NOT a fundamentalist church. Liberal media and liberal churches have been permitted to use the term “fundamentalist” so loosely that any church that commits a heinous act or crime is now called a “fundamental” Christian church. The FCGC does not believe that a person is saved the moment one accepts Christ as Saviour but that salvation depends on “continuing faith in Christ”. In a sermon titled, “How To Be Saved And Kept”, the FCGC gives the following statement about their progressive salvation view:

Very few, if any, trust God for the healing
of their body, and even less trust Him in faith
for finances. Most avenge their own wrongs,
and do not trust God to control family members. If anyone lives like that, then they are not
saved, and not kept by faith in the power of
God—they are lost and following the unbelieving ways of the world [1] (emphasis added).

Thus according to the FCGC, among all of the things you must do to stay saved, one of them includes trusting God for your healing. If the parents did not trust God to heal their sick child, they could lose their salvation. THAT IS NOT FUNDAMENTALISM.

Now a word about faith healers.

While it is certainly Biblical to pray for sicknesses (James 5:14), and Christ healed many of their ailments, it is erroneous to shun medical treatment for serious conditions. Most of the miracles performed by Christ were to verify His ministry and deity (Acts 2:22) and this ministry was practiced by the apostles. But these miracles as a sign had a cessation point. Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:20 “Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” Thus there were example of men in the Bible that were NOT healed.

Moreover, of the many people who offered greetings to the church in Colossae, one of them was named Luke, a physician. Col 4:14. Thus the New Testament was not opposed to the use of doctors.

I can’t count how many times I have seen Oral Roberts or Benny Hinn put on reading glasses to read a passage of the Bible. Is not

Oral Roberts

Oral Roberts

blindness an ailment that Jesus healed characters in the Bible from (John 9)? Then why don’t faith healers trust God to heal their eyesight? Or how about healing AIDS and cancer patients or raising the dead? Acts 9:40.

The next time you have an irregular heart palpitation or your child has an excessive fever, pray for them, call the pastor of the church, by all means use anointing oil, and GET TO THE HOSPITAL.

And you liberals can lie about and slander fundamentalism all you want, but at least get the right churches.


408493_261951307269644_1604332539_nIt’s not enough that Darrell Dow of Stuff Fundies Like to encourage marijuana usage on his site that claims to help survivors of “IFB abuse” in a post that generated over 150 likes on Facebook (the most on his page this year), but today he posts an excerpt from Baptist Evangelist Allen Domelle criticizing Domelle’s admonition to be careful of doubt. [1]

This is what Domelle said:

You must understand that one of the greatest tools Satan uses is unbelief. If he can get you to simply doubt, then he can win the battle. God is a God of absolutes. God does not want us to live in a world of unbelief. God plainly tells us in His Word what is right and wrong. You must be careful that you don’t allow unbelief to cloud your judgment and miss the blessings of God.
–Allen Domelle

This comment was preceded by Stuffed Undies Like founder Darrell Dow’s quip:

So much for doubt being part of faith, I guess.

As I have stated in an article before on this site, Darrell wouldn’t know a Bible verse if it cooked him dinner, and this is just more evidence of the blundering attempts that Darrell makes to vilify Baptists. Hard to believe he wrote a book called “Fundamental Flaws” of the IFB churches and “how to fix them” when he can’t even accurately define something as simple as faith and unbelief.

Darrell seems to equate the Bible’s recording of statements by those who expressed unbelief or doubt as a Biblical endorsement for a lack of faith. Nevertheless, Darrell’s quote itself is erroneous on its face. It’s like arguing that darkness is necessary for the existence of light. Darkness is the absence of light, light is not the cause of darkness. Unbelief is the result of not believing. Faith is not the cause of unbelief. Faith cures doubt, but the presence of doubt is not necessary for their to be belief. For me to believe that my car is sitting in my garage does not require me to doubt that it is not.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Romans 3:3

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

But with a name like Dow, I can see how someone with his lack of spiritual insight can confuse such a theory with Taoism (pronounced Dowism, ironically!) and it’s yin and yang concept.

Which Way Did He Go, George?

Which Way Did He Go, George?

What does the Bible have to say about doubt and unbelief?

And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Matthew 14:31

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Hebrews 3:18-19

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Hebrews 4:11

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear. Romans 11:20

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Romans 11:23

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. Matthew 13:58

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:23

And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. Luke 12:29

Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. Acts 10:20

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 1 Timothy 2:8

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. Mark 16:14

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8

It’s pretty pathetic  when someone becomes so desperate for fodder against Baptists they are willing to take statements of preachers encouraging others to have faith in God and turn them into satire.

boston copsIt is well-known that I am somewhat of what is called a “conspiracy theorist”. I say “somewhat” because I do not aspire to many of the theories of those such as Alex Jones (Info Wars) and many of the sites that see a conspiracy if a squirrel is born without claws. I do not believe that aliens will take over the earth, that dead people will walk around the living (zombies) or that those trails left by jets when hot fuel mixes with a frozen atmosphere contain chemicals that are designed to destroy the earth, or deflect signals from a sophisticated weather machine in Alaska that is capable of producing controlled storms.

However, there are some theories that I believe common sense must lead one to conclude that somethings just don’t add up. While many theories abound about the JFK assassination, the one thing that seems to be forgotten  by those that oppose the conspiracy theories surrounding his death was the fact that somebody got away with killing the president of the United States in broad daylight.

Not all conspiracy “theories” are theories. The reason most don’t believe them is because we fail to understand the depravity of human nature and consider it unfathomable that a blessed country such as the United States could be guilty of manufacturing the well-known atrocities that the nation has endured. But mankind is inherently evil, and there is no doubt that there is a power struggle for world domination. Yet that is precisely what the Bible predicted.

The Bible makes it clear that at some point, a demon possessed leader will take over as a world dictator. But how will that be accomplished if Americans believe it is a sovereign nation accountable to no one? When conspiracies theories are judged in light of Bible prophecy, they begin to make a little more sense; that man’s desire for power and control and his greed will cause one to kill their own mother if it means accomplishing a goal of globalization and a one world order. Even the most conservative politicians spoke regularly about the need for a “one world order” (George Bush, Sr).

It stands to reason that there can not possibly be global cooperation and submission to the antichrist by all nations without some sort of elaborate conspiracies to knock down all the necessary dominoes.

I firmly believe that recent policies about gun control and the push for certain “rights” are designed to accomplish just that; deprive citizens of constitutional rights they have enjoyed for centuries because those rights are an obstacle to bringing America into a one world government. How can you control several hundred million people if they are not “on board” with the idea of having a fascist nation dictating their laws and policies when they own guns? The Second Amendment was designed to secure the American people from tyrants who may abuse the power of government and force its citizen back into oppression. I believe that the current liberal policy makers have every intention of depriving American citizens of their right to bear arms for the purpose of implementing restrictive laws that will prepare the way for America to submit to a one world government. When the guns are gone, the remaining liberties will follow, and I believe that there are men in government that are evil enough to manufacture any crisis necessary to carry out those goals, including carefully orchestrated plots to murder its own citizens.

Manufactured crisis are not uncommon in history among countries like Rome, China, Russia. Leaders of nations have risen and fallen due to conspiracies within their own governments (assassination of Caesar by his own staff). Muslims have used citizens as human shields against military attacks. Stalin, Lenin, Tung, Hitler et al, murdered millions of their own people to exact total control of their subjects. They were all mere mortals with the same evil intentions that sinful humans in the US government are capable of.

I will not go into the theories I believe that prove that the Batman theater shootings, the World Trade Center attacks, and subsequent shootings all over the country were orchestrated to create a crisis to justify the promulgation of dictatorial laws, and the agencies behind them. But in the recent bombing in Boston, I wanted to point out a few things that to me just do not make sense.

*Immediately after the attacks, Russian president Vladimir Putin offered his assistance to the US government. Since when has Putin offered to assist the US in anything? Now keep in mind, during the presidential re-election campaign, Obama told a Russian minister that ” I will have more leeway after the election”.

*It is no secret that Putin would like to regain control of Chechnya. It would strengthen ties even further between Iran and Russia and be an extremely lucrative move due to the amount of wealthy bankers that occupy the area, and would give Russian more security by its capability of monitoring Turkish borders (a bone of contention between US and Russia regarding US defense systems housed on Turkish borders with defensive missiles aimed at Russia).

*A few months ago, Russian spy planes (nuclear capable bombers) were seen flying over Guam where US special forces military exercises take place.

*In the Moscow times, Russian Deputy Speaker Vladimir Zhirinovsky stated he knew the bombings were the work of Islamic extremists and that America was to blame for their actions [1] This was published BEFORE that photos of the suspects were released and before the suspects were identified as Russians.

*Attacks by extremists are normally well planned out. It is odd that these 2 suspects had no pre-planned escape route, and needed to steal a car and rob a 7/11 store for money. Furthermore, the reports state that they stole the car at knife point when they had just shot an MIT security officer. If one is on the run from the law, it would make sense that they would be in haste, why use a knife to steal a car if you have a gun?

*When the first suspect was shot, several of the witnesses that called news stations to report the fired shots said they did not see a body or a black Mercedes.

*Approximately 60 shots were fired two different times in the span of a few hours after a tip was called in that a man had been seen crawling into a canvase covered boat with blood on it, who was ultimately captured and taken alive. Now I have not seen all the reports yet, but it just doesn’t seem plausible that a man obviously bleeding from the night before, and shot at 60 times survived.

*The FBI had interview Tamerlan Tsarnaev [suspect #1] in 2011 but apparently released him for lack of confirmation any suspicious intentions or plots. [2]

*The coroner determined that Tsarnaev died of bullet wounds and fragments from an explosion due to a bomb strapped to his chest. No reports indicated that there was an explosion during that shootout. Initial reports were that he was on the ground lying face down. The photo leaked does not appear to verify that story, and there appears to be the Holter EKG monitoring devices on his torso which seems unlikely if a person was deemed dead at the scene. [3] *WARNING: Picture is graphic

*Even during 9/11, New York was not under the same type of “martial law” that Boston and 6 other surrounding cities were under whileDHS seattle police went door-to-door.  Seemed more like practice (like the Homeland Security officials presently occupying  certain cities in Washington State, even traveling with ambulances to non-critical calls).

Call me paranoid, but some things just don’t add up.

Whether the conspiracy theories can be proven or not, one thing is clear: with every crisis that emerges, the laws of the US become more oppressive and resemble communism and a move toward a totalitarian dictatorship. I personally do  not see how the nations that are predicted to align against Israel (Zech 12-14) can do so with the US being a staunch supporter, which leads me to believe that either the US will be successfully attacked and rendered incapable of assisting Israel, or that the US will be complicit in the conspiracies against Israel (and with Obama’s attitude toward Israel, I tend to think the latter. Click here for a report that shows US sentiment toward Israel). Either way, the countdown to the end of days is fast approaching, and it is no time for Christians to be complacent. Christ is coming soon!

wars and rumors

gty_victim_boston_tk_130415_wblogThis know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.  2 Timothy 3:1-4

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:12.

One of the worst signs of the last days is the merciless and coward acts of violence perpetrated by terrorists such as the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center, and now after eleven years of silence on the homeland, at least 3 people killed and over 100 wounded in a terrorist attack in Boston, Massachusetts on April 15, 2013, which included an eight year old child.

There has been “a person of interest” stated by the FBI, but nothing conclusive as to any possible motives and no terrorist groups have laid claim to the attacks. What we do know is that this attack occured on “Patriots Day”, and also while Israel has been celebrating it’s independence this week and remembering victims of the Holocaust. Boston has a substantial Jewish population. Thus the terrorist attacks could have been initiated by anyone from groups such as Al -Qaeda to domestic anti- Semitic organizations. Some of opined that it could be disgruntled anti-government radicals, but these groups typically target government agencies, not civilians.

We also know that at least 5 bombs total have been found, and it has been stated that they appear to be similar to the IED’s used in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, it would be too soon to jump to any conclusions until the site of the actual explosions can offer clues to the explosives used. Terrorist groups normally invest quite a bit of time and planning in these events and it is highly unlikely that 3 other bombs failed to detonate implying that the other bombs may have been deliberately left undetonated as decoys.

The attacks also follow controversy with North Korea as numerous threats have been made by NK leader, Kim Jong Un to attack the US with nuclear-capable weapons, and military was placed on high-alert in preparation for any potential aggression from the Koreans against US or South Korean interests.

130413-Audrie_Pott_244x183This week, a 15-year-old girl, Audrie Pott, committed suicide after photos were posted on the internet of boys raping her while she was unconscious at a party.

Before Audrie hung herself, she posted the following on her Facebook page:

“My life is over.”

“I’m in hell. Everyone knows about that night.”

“My life is ruined and I don’t even remember how.”

“I have a reputation for a night I don’t even remember and the whole school knows.”

The family has filed a class action lawsuit in an attempt to get a law passed entitled “Audrey’s Law” to combat the type of bullying that led to their daughter’s suicide.

It is truly amazing at the callousness of the 3 teenager boys not only in committing the act of raping an unconscious 15-year-old girl, but to have the audacity to post pictures of themselves with her on the internet.

As the scriptures foretold, in the last days the love of many would wax cold. The world as a whole has given up on God, economies are falling, the rich are trying to gain whatever they can before homes and business foreclose and go into bankruptcy, and families are doing what they can just to make ends meet. Politicians have shunned Biblical precepts regarding the life of unborn children and permit a definition of marriage that spits in God’s face.

The Department of Defense recently released a “watch list” of terrorist threats, and number 1 on the list was “Evangelical Christians”, 563622_10200823565979047_2053242641_nbeating out Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and the Ku Klux Klan. The Colorado State Police have even begun a program to train officers to watch for “sovereign citizens” who take the Bible “too seriously”. The government is pushing hard to take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens in the United States, and as with Germany and other countries, when that is accomplished, total government control will soon follow.

The end is certainly drawing near. “And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” Luke 21:28. This is no time for the church to be apathetic, complacent and callous. We still have a God who cares and wants His people to continue to reach out to the lost and the grieving. There is coming a time soon when a Christian will be the villain for preaching the word of God, and I believe that when the voice of the church has been forced into silence, God’s wrath will be unleashed on a nation that has virtually begged for His judgment.

Where will the Lord Jesus find you when He returns for His church? Are you praying for the lost and grieving? Are you visiting the sick and wounded? Do you pass out tracts or talk about Jesus wherever you go? Do you praise God in the storms of life, or do you complain for all the world to hear? Or are you consumed with the cares of this world, and distracted by its pleasantries? Is salvation just “fire insurance” for  you, or are you willing to demonstrate your gratefulness to God by sharing the love of Christ to a world that desperately needs it in these last days?

Will you fight as a soldier of the Lord for sound doctrine or will you give up when the storms blow against your comfortable life style, and question God as to why all the bad things in life seem to happen to just you? The love of many is growing colder, and we may be the only Bible someone ever reads. Will you sing with the hymnist your need for Him and seek God’s face for a compassion to win the lost.

I need Thee every hour, most gracious Lord;
No tender voice like Thine can peace afford.

I need Thee, O I need Thee;
Every hour I need Thee;
O bless me now, my Savior,
I come to Thee.

I need Thee every hour, stay Thou nearby;
Temptations lose their power when Thou art nigh

I need Thee every hour, in joy or pain;
Come quickly and abide, or life is in vain.

I need Thee every hour; teach me Thy will;
And Thy rich promises in me fulfill.



Jocelyn Zichterman writes of her “experience in the IFB cult” in a book titled, “I Fired God”, and runs a Facebook page called, “Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors”.

Without going into detail about Jocelyn’s claims to have been an advocate appointed by the FBI to assist victims, or her communist beliefs that government should mandate policies in churches and Bible colleges, let us just show you the type of fruit that her group produces:

What I’ve learned while studying atheism: Atheism is widely misunderstood, even by some of those who claim to be atheist. Its not that I can prove there is no god. Its more like I’ve seen the “evidence” for your god and have found it to be woefully insufficient. This world functions exactly the same with your god in charge as it would if we were simply highly evolved primates with no divine creator. If you claim that there is a god who not only created this world, but also cares about what happens in this world, about what gender I am, about whom I love or in what position I love them, you have an insanely high burden of proof. It is not on me to prove that God doesn’t exist. It is on you to prove he exists and cares what I do. (Two different cases) Please note – the Bible is not evidence. Church Father’s are not evidence, random claims of creation instead of evolution are not evidence. You may believe god exists by faith, as faith acknowledges there is no evidence, but do not come to me with faith and call is evidence. Only after coming away from Christianity and freeing myself from the mental slavery and suspension of disbelief, have I been able to find real healing. For me, surviving the IFB cult has required a return to reason, scientific process and a life that is firmly anchored in the here and now. I don’t believe based on faith, I follow the evidence and the evidence thus far leaves me with no other conclusion than there is no god. (all credit for non-original thought goes to Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Pen Gillette and others whose name I have forgotten)
Donna Jefferson I, too, have found solace and peace in atheism. You will be attacked for your views, scripture will be quoted, and outrage will be expressed but I appreciate your courage and conviction.
Rachel Raub I am glad you got out and I am glad you found what works for you. ……Rachel Raub Signed: Stereotypical Loudmouthed Feminist.
Elizabeth Niederer Bummer, can’t find it. In any case, the guest was an eminent scientist and provided some pretty compelling-sounding arguments for behaviors we consider to be uniquely human, such as demonstrations of altruism, ethical or moral principles, being far more widespread and NOT tied to religion or philosophy. 

Gee, if monkeys can treat one another well, one might think non-religious humans could do the same eh? *eyeroll*
Sharon Cooney I identify as a Humanist, and I suspect there are a few here who are as well, but don’t realise it. I do not accept that there is any kind of deity to be feared or judged by. I live by the Golden Rule, and encourage others around me to as well – without shoving it down anyone’s throat (each to their own). Common decency, respect for your fellow human (including those who are mentally bound by dogma), respect for the earth, respect for other living things (yes, I eat meat because we are omnivorous beings) so there is hope for a better future for our descendants has absolutely nothing to do with any god, or any religion. I am a free thinker. I believe back in the day I may have been called “one of those long haired hippies”, and I reckon I would have agreed whole-heartedly.
Michael Holt What made me denounce Theism? I faced the fact that if I used the same line of reasoning that I used to reject a belief in foreign gods, that I would have to give up mine too. In Science, we have something called the Null Hypothesis. Its what we use to test the natural world. If a hypothesis can not be proven true, then it is to be rejected and considered false. Yahweh, as well as other foreign gods, is credited for scientific claims in the bible, that we now know is false. That means that an all knowing creator God could not have inspired the bible writers to write what they wrote. Debunk the Creation myths? Then the God of that myth must not exist. What I found when I spoke to others about this? Is that they would make special pleadings and logic leaps to justify and excuse these falsehoods. And what happens when the bible makes a false scientific claim? Christians just twist it and make it symbolic or poetic or something else. But here is the thing. Under Null Hypothesis? I don’t have to prove negatives. I have to prove positives. I can still reject theistic claims and logically conclude that there is no rationally justified reason to believe in one. Which by default? Still made me an Atheist.
Joel Erickson As far as stealing being wrong regardless of whether or not someone else sees you, there’s this thing called empathy that allows people to place themselves in the shoes of another individual to try to share their experiences. Empathy requires no supernatural explanation.

As far as your passive-aggressive description of people sending themselves to Hell, you are reinforcing the concept that the relationship with a god and the relationship abusers have with the people they abuse is very similar.

People who are abused are asking for it.

People who abuse have no choice; their inability to control themselves is the fault of the person or people they abuse.

Do these comments sound like a deity you know of?
David Piper Something similar started me on the path to Atheism.The question that could not be answered by any fundie Christian I know: “Why would a (supposedly) loving god allow fully 2/3rds of the world’s population (non Christians of ANY variety) to perish?
Translation Errors Have ALWAYS Brought Harm To Women
Ryan Dillingsworth Now its my turn to say “what the f are you talking about?” Did you even look at the whole post – women are actually being stoned to death, enslaved, and all sorts of shit around the world (and even maybe at a few IFB “wayward girls” houses) and actually do need advocates – the point is to point out the difference between this and those that run around making an issue out of every little thing like getting asked out for coffee or people using “gendered” language turning everyone into enemies of one another, etc etc. ……… and no way am I a Neo-Con phony like Rush L.
We are the founders of Peaceful Parenting, Atheism, and Anarchism. If you are an atheist, anti-theist, voluntaryist, libertarian, anarchist, and into peaceful parenting.. please add us. J
Mark D Young Many Christians don’t want to deal with mental illness. They want to believe we have a soul located inside our chest, and what happens with our bodies or brains should have no effect on us, if we just “get right with the lord”
You get the picture. This is the results of what happens when you attempt to create groups out of spite, revenge and hate.
We have addressed Skepticism here (article from Norman Geisler) and will address some of the silly logic used in some of the above comments to defend atheism. We don’t spend a great deal of time dealing with atheism because only a fool says there is no God. But for the faint-hearted who we find occasionally that truly believe some of the ridiculous presuppositions set forth by atheists and agnostics, we add 2 cents now and then.
This is in response to an email challenging us to prove that these groups produce atheists as we stated in other articles. This is only a very small handful of comments and posts from that site, and many of the members of this group are also members of the other “Do Right” groups as well.
But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Matthew 22:34
When the Pharisees saw that Jesus had out-witted the Sadduccees, they attempted to band together in a unified effort to trap Jesus. The professing Christians among these groups have adopted the same philosophy: band together with other groups even if they don’t share our views for the sake of a common cause. Even though the common cause has the appearance of pursuing legitimate concerns, God is just as concerned about the means  (2 Samuel 6:1-7) as He is the end (Eccl 7:8). And Christians who think that they can mingle with heathen and not learn their ways are fooling themselves (Psalm 106:35, 1 Cor 15:33). The above evidence of such attempts is a painful reminder of that fact.
But just a few thoughts for the atheist to ponder:
*No atheist has ever successfully explained the origins of the universe. While they claim that creation is not scientific, not even the laws of science allow for the great leaps of faith that it takes to believe in evolution or that order came from chaos. Evolution is still called the ‘THEORY” of evolution which is contrary to the terms that science gives to what it believes it can prove (the LAW of thermodynamics, the LAW of gravity, etc..).
Not only has atheism failed to explain the origin of the universe, but if their own theory of order from chaos is true, or a “Big Bang” caused creation, or massive gasses randomly created complex DNA structures that led to intelligent life, where did the Big Bang come from and from whence did all of the gases come from? Some argue that they have always existed which flies in the face of their argument of the impossibility of an eternally existent God. If gases can exist for an eternity, then why not God!
*No atheist has successfully explained the innate desire of man to wish to be good and respect each other. Atheists attempt to argue (as they did in comments above) that apes can be taught to be friendly, but that’s the difference, animals have to be taught, humans do not. Every human being has a sense of morality and atheism has no adequate explanation for the origin of man’s conscience.
*Atheism has never been able to adequately provide a link between fossil records.
*While atheism argues against faith to believe in creation, they themselves will not admit to the amount of faith it takes to NOT believe there is a God or faith needed and lack of evidence for the theories proposed for evolution.

 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20.

Melissa1                                               Melissa Fletcher is the sister of Jocelyn Zichterman, and moderator for their group page


back to bible

Dr. James Ach and Senior Editor J/A

I’ve heard it said a million times, “What would Jesus Do?” and, “God said it, I believe it, and that settles it”. Those are admirable quotes and words to live by, but there’s something missing. How do we know what Jesus would do? And if God said it, and you believe it, does that really settle it because you believe it?  “I don’t think Jesus would say or do that”: how do you know?

Just what would Jesus do? Whatever happened to: WDBS? What does the Bible say?  

I was commenting on another popular forum the other day, and I noticed how so many arguments from others rested on the opinions and quotes from other “scholars”. It was as if the debate had moved to what a particular passage meant to who read the most “authorities” on the subject or who actually holds the belt for the best interpretations. If a tie-breaker was needed, then it depended on what college the scholar went to or if the degree was accredited. Harvard trumps Princeton, so the Harvard scholar wins, and accredited degree means that scholar is smarter than a person holding an unaccredited degree. (Jesus would not have fared well among these “scholars” since He was not “educated”. John 7:15)

But throughout the discourse, something was missing.

On this site I have debated with skeptics, atheists and numerous ignorant ex-Baptists, and the one thing that always stands out is that in their arguments for attempting to define what is right or wrong, they have no absolute standard. Without a standard there is anarchy. Atheism ultimately leads to an antinomian lifestyle that merely swims with the tides of social evolution and its situational ethics. Psalm 14:1, Rom 1:20.

The charismatic will argue, “I know what I saw, I know what I felt and because I know what happened to me, I believe”. Experience is the authority of the charismatic. If the “gift of tongues” sweeps over the charismatic, the experience itself is the justification of the experience. Prov 28:26.

The psychiatrist and the philosopher claim that Christianity simply doesn’t add up, and is not logical. The scientist can’t reproduce miracles in a controlled environment and therefore whatever does not make sense to the mind of the scientist, the psychiatrist and the philosopher can not be true because it can not be reasoned with. Their human wisdom and knowledge is their authority, but again without any absolute standard.  1 Cor 1:20. Jer 17:9

The Roman Catholic church, the Watchtower and all churches that are not independent that maintain some type of centralized governing body and write creeds of doctrine (Matt 15:9) derive their authority on the church. “I don’t know how to explain it, but I know my preacher said…and our church teaches…” The church, or the organization, fellowship, presbytery is the final authority. Jer 7:4.

I have seen pastors and evangelists defending “monarchs” of their denomination as if they were defending God Himself. Now I believe that a good name is rather to be chosen than riches or gold (Prov 22:1), but when you need to spend hours, weeks, months, years writing books to defend the lives of others  you believe to be godly, you could be wasting God’s time. Let the critics write their books, because even if they are right on some of what they claim, if you have an absolute standard, and that standard shows sinners how to be saved, who God is, and that standard holds the doctrines that define what morality and godly living are, then you are in the better position to yield fruit for the service of God while they watch the Times for the next juicy bit of gossip for their next “masterpiece”.

The other day I was given a book written about J.Frank Norris, how he “murdered” a man (even though he was acquitted) and I thought, my couch needed to be raised about an inch to prevent its wobbling. Perfect fit!

Now I have no problem with defending a man’s ministry when the critics are clearly wrong. Jesus defended John The Baptist (Matthew 11:9-13). But I also have no problem criticizing a man even though he has passed away if his teachings were erroneous and/or there is convincing evidence of a wicked immoral life (John Calvin, Martin Luther, Augustine, Armstrong, Russel, Eddy, Smith, et al). But whether an influential leader had or has a reputation worth defending, there must be a standard on which a man is measured, and the standard must be the ultimate authority that judges doctrine, a church, a ministry, or any man’s character alive or dead. Opinions will vary about men, and if you hold them as your standard, you will be disappointed.

Some churches want to “get back to the old paths”. Is there a standard for that? Absolutely (Jer. 6:16). I for one, second that sentiment. However, I do not want the old paths back for the sake of the old paths just because that would make me popular by giving me some sort of mantra with which to rally the troops to my battle cry for the sake of a concept. Some of the preachers that are considered part of the “old paths” were not necessarily very sound in their doctrine. If getting back to the old paths means propping up men because they were popular regardless of what they believed in, count me out.

If getting back to the old paths means attempting to get believers to stand on an absolute standard that is quick and powerful, that is double-edged-swordsharper than a two-edged sword and pierces to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, then count me in. If it means getting back to a time when men held this standard in regard above their opinions, experience, and human wisdom, sign me up.

There is no question that today we live in a society without a standard. A standard that is uncompromising and flawless in it’s description of the Creator and instructions for man. Today men are lovers of their own selves,  covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof (2 Tim 3:2-4). Every man does that which is right in his own eyes (Prov 21:2) and fundamentalists and other professing Christians sure are not exempt from this.

Christians have stopped depending on the absolute standard of truth. We have allowed the peripheral to become primary, civil rights over Biblical precepts, and the Holy Spirit has become merely a chevron on our sleeve that permits entrance into the fellowship of militant fundamentalist platoons marching in cadence to the opinions and teachings of fallible men instead of the absolute authority of the word of God.

I am not opposed to holding preachers in high regard (1 Cor 1:11, Phil 3:17, “I will get me unto the great men, and will speak unto them; for they have known the way of the Lord,..” Jer 5:5), or reading other sources. I have read hundreds of other books outside of the Bible and for a time, after reading my Bible in the morning would listen to J.Vernon McGee’s “Back to the Bible” (until I got fed up with “a better translation would be..”), but one thing I have disciplined myself on is to never let the opinion or influences of another man dissuade me from checking that person’s life and teaching according to the Bible. Acts 17:11. No mortal man is above reproof and no church member should be harassed or criticized for asking questions about a man’s teaching if they are desirous of the truth. Some of the qualifications for a minister are being patient and apt to teach. 2 Tim 2:24. If you don’t have the time to field questions about your beliefs or the beliefs of other preachers, and get agitated when someone questions the pastor with an honest inquiry, then you are not fit to be in the ministry.

One story that has always inspired me was that of Walter Martin’s trip to a money printing mint. Walter traveled with a class of banker students to the mint to handle fresh money printed off the press. After several hours of touring the building, the tour guide led the students to a room full of counterfeit bills where they spent only a few minutes inspecting the fakes. Walter asked the tour guide, “Why don’t the students spend more time studying the counterfeits?”. The tour guide replied, “We want them to be so familiar with the original that they will recognize a counterfeit right off the bat”!


I spent 20 years memorizing the New Testament. I have developed a program to memorize it in five years now. What prevented me from doing that 15 years ago? Studying counterfeits more than the “original”. Most Jewish children entering into full-time service have the Torah memorized at age 12 (Boys have a ‘bar mitzvah’ at 13, Girls [bat mitzvah] at 12). Muslim children have the entire Quran memorized by the time they are teenagers as well. Most Christians I know have about 50-100 verses memorized (out of 31,000). They have more baseball and football statistics memorized than they do the Bible. The average Baptist today can tell you who the top 100 most famous IFB preachers are, but can’t tell you the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. If the average Christian spent half as much time with the Bible and prayer as they did on the internet, and television, there would be much less corruption, apathy, false doctrine, depression, and criminal activity among church members.

The very first thing God did for the people of Israel after He used Moses to lead them out of Egypt, was gave them a standard before they began their journey into the promised land.

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! Go say to them, Get you into your tents again. But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it. Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess. Deut 5:29-33

Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. Psalm 119:9

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalm 119:11

My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye. Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart. Proverbs 7:1-3

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 2 Tim 4:2

God said it, THAT SETTLES IT, whether you believe it or not. Would to God that we would get back to the Bible and instead of engaging in speculative fruitless debates about what Jesus would do based on the “authority” of good godly “qualified scholars” and start reading and memorizing the Bible.

The Bible stands though the hills may tumble,
It will firmly stand when the earth shall crumble;
I will plant my feet on its firm foundation,
For the Bible stands.

~Dr. James Ach and J/A

We reported on the issue of BJU staff member, Joseph Bartosch being fired here in our article “Why Fundamentalists Don’t Listen To Our Critics” but it needs its own article because of the sheer hypocrisy and double standards applied to the matter by Do Right Notables, Jeffrey Hoffman and Cathy Harris.

The crux of the matter is that Joseph Bartosch was terminated from BJU after 20 years of employment after BJU was “tipped” about a conviction he had 20 years prior for soliciting a prostitute.

Jeffrey Hoffman, BJUnity founder and “Do Right BJU” contributor, among others, are now criticizing BJU for firing Joseph Bartosch. One reader on his page noticed the hypocrisy and double standard and posted this”

Eric G. Wood Just a quick question, regardless of the motivation behind their actions, why does it appear that they are getting grief again for “doing the right thing?”

Exactly! Bingo. Over the plate, waste high.

Jeffrey states in this thread: 

Jeffrey Hoffman Eric, I wouldn’t say that BJU did the right thing at all. They publicized Joe’s being let go and have basically admitted that they didn’t do a background check. (Personally, I don’t believe that, but that is irrelevant). They did not protect their students and they have not followed the law. Letting Joe go was the right thing to do. It didn’t need to be publicized. But BJU made it public. Why?

Jeffrey Hoffman is now saying BJU did not do the right thing by publicizing it.


On March 23, Jeffrey posted on this thread:

I want to know why this easy-to-construct chronology is not what is being shared with the media. What are you hiding, BJU?

Joseph Bartosch Facts
1982 05 00 — Graduated BJU as Speech Ed

1991 03 15 — Court Filing Date of Prostitution conviction

1991 03 26 — Arraignment

1994 04 20 — Probation ended.

1994 06 07 — Filed to start Sacramento Preparatory Academy

2001 08 00 — Assumes Staff GA over Perf Hall while he pursues MA in Dramatic Production while “on sabbatical” from SPA.

2002 05 00 — Bartosch appears in the yearbook as a Graduate Assistant from Sacramento, CA.

2002 05 01 — Played Antigonus in Winter’s Tale

2005 08 00 — Returns to BJU for a MS in Counseling.

2006 05 00 — Listed as a GA from Greenville, SC. Masters in Biblical Counseling.

2006 11 15 — Vincentio in Taming of the Shrew

2007 05 00 — Not listed in the yearbook.

2007 05 02 — Lord Chief Justice in Henry IV

2007 00 00 — Successfully defended his EdD diss in Curriculum and Instruction with proficiencies in biblical counseling, communications, and theology

2007 08 00 — Manager of IT.

2008 04 30 — Duke of Exeter in Henry V

2008 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2009 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2009 11 18 — Jaggers in Great Expectations

2010 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2010 12 06 — Dean of Distance Learning.
Bob Jones University announced today the appointment of Dr. Joseph Bartosch as Dean of Distance Learning. Reporting to Dr. David Fisher, Provost, Dr. Bartosch is responsible for the further development of BJU’s online education program.

2011 05 00 — Listed in the yearbook as Staff in IT from Greenville, SC

2011 11 16 — Solinus in Comedy of Errors

2011 12 17 — Marries Christina Davis

2012 05 02 — Brabantio in Othello

2012 05 00 — Appears in the yearbook as an Administrator, “Dr. Joseph Bartosch, Dean of Distance Learning.”

2012 12 00 — Appointed Chief Branding Officer

This information gathered by Jeffrey was then reposted on Chuckles Travels and several other websites.

First of all, Jeffrey criticizes BJU for making Bartosch’s firing public WHEN HE POSTED THE MAN’S ENTIRE LIFE CHRONOLOGY ON LINE FOR ALL TO SEE.

Jeffrey later stated:

This is what happens when you let your alumni do your background checks instead of doing them yourself.
Of course, rumors abound that BJU administrators have long known about this man’s history; they just didn’t think it was a big deal.

So according to Jeffrey, BJU never thought it was a big deal, so keeping Bartosch on staff would be the “no big deal” part, but then criticizes BJU for firing him?

Secondly, Jeffrey criticized BJU for covering up the matter, (“what is BJU trying to hide”) and therefore since the entire matter was made public BY JEFFREY, what did he expect BJU to do? Jeffrey assisted in the PUBLIC dissemination of this information about Bartosch, and then criticizes BJU for giving a public response??

This is has got be some of the most ridiculous, hypocritical, deceitful, double-forked tongue tactics I have ever seen that demonstrate some people are willing to do anything in order to promote their agendas.

And to make matters worse adding fuel to the fire, Cathy Harris offers a story to explain how Bartosch could have had his charge reduced to a lower charge in order to explain why Bartosch was only charged with a misdemeanor.

NEWSFLASH CATHY: when charges are reduced, they are reduced to a LESSER INCLUDED OFFENSE. Soliciting a prostitute is not a lesser included offense of rape, or any other sex crime. Lesser included offense would be like dropping rape down to sexual deviant conduct or murder down to aggravated assault or reckless homicide. You can’t take a charge of arson and drop it down to jay-walking. This is the law in every state.

As we stated on our previous thread about this matter, the Do Right crowd painted this as a sex abuse case, even calling the prostitute a victim. While we certainly do not condone soliciting a prostitute, even though there was no actual ACT performed (to LOOK upon a woman with lust is adultery, so Biblically, there doesn’t need to be an overt act) it was sinful, but was NOT a sex crime that had a victim. The woman Joseph Bartosch was charged with soliciting was receiving payment for sex which she willingly chose to do.

Furthermore, Jeffrey’s search that revealed his chronology was done in 2013. Big difference in searches that were available in 2013 than in 1991, and considering the “world wide web” was not released until 1989 with the first website being launched in 1990, and the release of “Windows” in 1995, it is HIGHLY doubtful that BJU would have obtained the same results that Jeffrey obtained in 2013.

I am not a fan of BJU as we have an enormous disagreement over the KJV issue, but I do not like seeing a fundamentalist institution, even one I don’t agree with, vilified by deception and pejorative rhetoric. As we said in our article before this one, this is one huge reason why we don’t pay attention to the blathering of our critics.


And by the way, Trisha Lacroix who also opined on Jeffrey’s page, has a lot of nerve criticizing anyone for failing to be honest on an application when she told her employers that she had a marketing degree from Hyles Anderson College. View Evidence Here.

Man-Holding-Ears-ShutIf you want to know what a fundamentalist really believes in, just ask someone like Jeri Massi or Jocelyn Zichterman, they have an entire list and an array of articles that define every tenant of faith any fundamentalist has ever believed in. In fact, with the help of astrology, Jeri Massi was probably aided in writing articles that Baptists forgot to write about.

There has certainly been enough fodder to feed the Wehrmacht Anti Christian Kiddy Order (“WACKOS”) , and with the crimes committed among members belonging to IFB churches, the leap has been made from the abuser to IFB doctrine itself. There have been criminal convictions, lives wrecked, families harmed, among accusations of cover-ups. The rhetoric from the WACKOS rivals that of the best conspiracy theorist in that every deviant act committed by a member of an IFB church was plotted by and covered up by a ruling member of the IFB body, and ultimately, it was the doctrines of the IFB that permitted and even caused the acts.

Nevertheless, there are some matters that the WACKOS have a right to point fingers at us fundamentalists for. But, if there are abuses permitted within the IFB with impunity, and cover ups, then why are the “fundies” not listening? Are the groups that ripped off the Bob Jones Sr “Do Right” slogan right about fundamentalists?

No, they are not, and there’s a good reason why we don’t listen to them.

The Dishonesty of the Critics

Embellishment of Facts

When news first surfaced about sexual abuse occurring at Bob Jones University, it was reported that nine rapes were covered up and made to appear that nine separate perpetrators had been involved. Eventually it was discovered that all nine cases were committed by the same person, and the perpetrator was arrested. I am certainly no fan of BJU due to issues over the KJV, but if accusations are getting leveled against an entire college, there’s no need to embellish and distort the facts.

Misrepresentation of Fundamentalist Beliefs

Any cursory perusal of blogs such as “Blog On The Way” by Jeri Massi, “Religions Cell” by Cynthia McClaskey, or “Stuff Fundies Like [which I have labeled “Stuffed Undies Like”] by Darrell Dow, one would think that the IFB promotes misogyny and the slaughter of animals for penance. Just a few of the erroneous assumptions made and self-imposed caricature created by these WACKOS are as follows:

*Baptists’ goal are to brain wash members and exercise total control over them.

*Baptists distort the Bible to make women slaves.

*Baptists attempt to forcefully prevent members from leaving the church. If you leave the church you are going to hell.

*Baptists promote “King James Onlyism” so they can control what their members believe.

*Baptist teach a fear-based religion to manipulate followers into worshiping their leaders and giving money.

*Baptists blame the victims for being abused (be sure to insert at least one good example, like Chuck Phelps or Mark Monte).

*Baptists teach that outward appearance is necessary to be in good standing with God.

*Baptists teach that a person should forgive their offender because the real goal of forgiveness is to prevent a person from reporting a possible criminal act and Baptists would rather pressure a person from “telling” than “hurt the cause of Christ”.

*Baptists force you to be what they want you to be.

*Baptists don’t believe in repentance.

*Baptists are all about glorifying themselves and praising each other (don’t forget to write that in your $19.95 book on “Schizophrenic Christianity”.)

Ad Nauseum

If I took the time to debunk all of the articles contained on these websites, I’d have a series that exceeds the Encyclopedia Britannica. It’s as if the statement of faith or the “What We Believe” section of a fundamental Baptist church reads:

1. We believe in the plenary inspiration of the Bible [which by the way, Massi criticizes that view as well] 2. We believe that God exists in 3 persons; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit 3. We believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ 4. We believe that salvation is by grace through faith, and that salvation can not be attained by baptism or “being good”. 5. We believe that crimes should be covered up and children should be molested.

Jeri Massi wrote an article about repentance, but failed to mention that repentance means turning to God from idols, i.e, astrology and Buddhism. She wrote a practically Arminian view of repentance, and then wrote a Calvinist view of free will. In her article on the “erroneous IFB ‘free will” doctrine, she accuses Baptists of following Pelagianism, but only cites a the partial view that Pelagianism views man is a free moral agent, but leaves out the part that Pelagianism holds that man can achieve good works without the assistance of any Divine intervention, and that man has no original sin nature. Not even an honest Calvinist should make that kind of leap.

There is not one fundamental Baptist church that I know of that holds to the nature of sin in the manner that Pelagianism describes it.

In an article by Cynthia McClaskey, she opines that the Bible has been twisted and distorted and Baptists have deliberately left out “lost gospels” and perverted the canon of scripture. This view is put forth to prove that Baptists create their own theology by strategically using selected texts to their own advantage.

Not only is that one of the most ridiculous and uneducated arguments I’ve ever heard, but defies the facts of history, particularly considering the line up of PROTESTANT scholars that were on the King James translating committee. In her fallacious attempt to frame Baptists, she ignores an enormous amount of textual evidence that would make even Westcott and Hort shake their heads. Her argument posits that because there were men who were actively corrupting the Bible (which occurred even while the apostles were writing, 2 Cor 2:17) that ALL of the Bible from henceforth must be corrupt. But then of course she will USE the Bible in articles when it fits her presuppositions to do so.

You may view one of our articles about her attempt to paint Baptists as misogynists here

Not only have such critics failed to give an accurate description of what fundamentalism really is, or what the IFB churches actually teach, they have distorted facts, misinterpreted scripture and often even relied on anti Christian sources to prove their views. And hence one reason why fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics is because of their dishonesty.

The Motives Of The WACKOS

There is no question in my mind that there are ulterior motives behind many of the so-called “victim advocate” groups who make up a large majority of the critics against the IFB. It seems some want attention like Nadine Salgado who now maintains a You Tube page that gives the appearance that she has been some First Baptist Church insider that is now “coming out”. She maintains a group page called “What You Need To Know About Jack Schaap”. Really? What do we all need to know that isn’t already contained on every other website in the country and on court records?

Everyone is having their “coming out” party now. Former church members such as Jeremy Lape, among many for example, who haven’t stepped foot in ANY church for 20 years let alone an IFB church, now all of a sudden have a perfect recollection of every conversation they ever had with Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap, Victor Nischik, and the Pope.

I remember back in 1985, Jack Hyles winked at me from the pulpit and we shook hands after the service and he said hello to me.

Translation: “I knew Jack Hyles very well. I was at his church for 10 years (even though I only shook his hand once). I mowed his lawn, counseled his children, fed his dogs, aired his tires. Jack Hyles was my best friend until he died, then his ghost came to me in a dream and reminded me of all the evil things he did and when Jack Schaap got arrested just to taunt me, then I remembered all the times that Jack Hyles, John R. Rice, Lee Roberson, Shelton Smith drug me into an alley and stole my shoes, beat me senseless, and cast lots for my shoestrings”.

And if you have heard a rumor, because you have heard that rumor, you are now part of the “in crowd” of that particular church, and can craft the story any way you choose to give the appearance that you actually have first-hand knowledge of the events that surrounded the lives of IFB preachers. If you can’t think of an original story, find one closest to the time you may have been a member of the church or college, and run with it, but change a few details.

This is the 15 minutes of fame crowd, and some attempt to achieve longevity to exceed that 15 minute fuse by insisting that you buy the book on it, or bookmark the website.

Then there are the atheists and homosexuals. Never in my life have I seen such an influx of atheists and agnostics take such an interest in mingling with other Christians on a victim abuse site, nor the willingness of other so-called Christians to embrace them and give license to their unbelief.  Jocelyn Zichterman’s Facebook page is full of the most vile atheists who literally play the devil’s advocate in guaranteeing that those church members are aware that it is the belief in God that leads to abuse.

And homosexual groups such as BJUnity hop on the bandwagon attempting to convince followers that they are concerned about abuse within the fundamentalist churches. Of course, the abuse by their own communities is never addressed because their own community doesn’t call homosexuality a sin.

The preaching of sound Biblical doctrine which is vehemently opposed to homosexuality and atheism is a stumbling block and a rock of offense to them. As long as there are any conservative views held by politicians and voting church members  that believe in legislation based upon morals taught from the Bible, the homosexual community will attempt to silence those voices at all cost while preaching “tolerance” to all views but those of fundamentalists.

Therefore another reason fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics is because of the motivations of the accusers.

The Accusations Are Inaccurate And/Or Embellished

I wrote briefly heretofore of the inaccurate statements that critics have used to define fundamentalism, but one thing that needs emphasized is the ability of the critics to “make a mountain out of a mole hill”. Although abuse should not be tolerated anywhere, the abuses that have occurred within the IFB make up less than 1% of all the documented cases of abuse in public schools, public colleges, foster homes, other denominations, sex trafficking, secular clubs (e.g., Boyscouts), prisons, nursing homes and even among psychiatrists.

The atheists point fingers while atheism was the philosophy that inspired the murder and torture of millions of citizens under Joseph Stalin, Lenin, and Mao Tse-Tung. The homosexual community screams foul play while six of this country’s most notorious serial killers and rapists were homosexuals that account for more than double the rapes and murders of any IFB list with only the 6 of them.

Jeri Massi maintains of list of abusers. Some who have been convicted of a crime, and some, such as Alabama Governor and Fox talk show host, Mike Huckabee and pastor of First Baptist Church in Atlanta, Charles Stanley, who are merely “guilty by association”. Meaning that because they wouldn’t talk to protesters, or take the time to cancel a meeting that someone else scheduled for them or make abuse the topic of their show at the insistence of a protester, they get placed on the wall of shame with those actually convicted of a crime (and of course, Mike Huckabee is a Baptist).

There was the story of Tina Anderson whom was raped by Earnie Willis. The allegations that followed that case was also that Chuck Phelps sent Tina to another state to hush the matter after demanding that she apologize in front of the church. So the logic goes, Chuck Phelps attempted to cover up the crime, Chuck Phelps was a fundamentalists, therefore all fundamentalists ship rape victims off to another state and cover up the crime. (Chuck Phelps has created a website to respond to his accusers here)

Just recently, BJU was accused of hiding the criminal record of an employee convicted 20 years ago of soliciting a prostitute. Now I don’t know what BJU’s policy was concerning background checks, I do know that the technology for background checks is much more sophisticated and thorough now as it was back then. But nevertheless, BJU ultimately fired this man. Was that good enough for BJUnity founder Jeffrey Hoffman? Nope. At first, the contention was how could BJU have hired this man, and now the quibbling is over why BJU fired him.

Moreover, the crime this man was convicted of was portrayed by the WACKOS as a sex ABUSE case, and the prostitute who willingly received money from this man and willingly attempted to engage in sexual activity was labelled a “victim” and used as another example of IFB abuse. Now I do not defend these kind of actions at all, and if he purposely hid this crime when he was expected to disclose it, then he can’t complain that it caught up with him, even if it was 20 years later.

However, I have not seen where he actually had sex with this prostitute. The charge was SOLICITATION meaning that he ATTEMPTED False accusationto have sex with a prostitute. There was no manipulation or force or coercion such as is part of the mens rea that constitutes acts of a sex crime. A prostitute is a victim of her profession and perhaps a victim of her upbringing that led her/him to believe prostitution is an acceptable line of work. Or it is just greed (Read Proverbs chapters 5-7 to see the Bible’s position on prostitution).

Nevertheless, the WACKO crowd used this as an opportunity to embellish this matter to vilify fundamentalism.

Manufactured Crisis Tactics

A well-known tactic in politics is the “manufactured crisis” tactic. This is where you identify a potential problem, then create a panic about the problem, and then offer a solution and encourage the voters remember you at the ballot box.

a_peanutIf I find just one thing wrong with a peanut, I can find 100 other ways to describe the problem, and then create a blog about it, remind readers EVERY DAY that peanuts are dangerous, find at least 100 people world-wide that have choked on a peanut, buy air-time on CNN and every major radio outlet in the country, and within a month or so convince millions of people that peanuts are a menace to society and need to be eradicated.

Jeri Massi has amassed a list of approximately 86 offenders within the IFB. That list spans over about 10 years or so. So among the thousands of IFB church members in the world, lets round it to 100 known abuse cases. Now granted, the offenses were a manufacturing of the offenders own making, but the manufacturing of the perception that abuse in the IFB is epidemic is Jeri’s (and others such as Dwayne Walker “Bible Madness”, Chuckles Travels, and all of the afore-mentioned groups).

Now take a breather and look at those statistics again, only one-hundred cases in the span of ten years documented out of the hundreds of years of the recognized fundamentalist churches in the world and the thousands upon thousands of fundamental Baptist church members.

However, if a writer opines about one subject on a daily basis, and hammers on the subject incessantly, it has the exact same indoctrination effect of the appearance of an epidemic that the critics accuse the IFB of using with the Bible.

Most Abuses Occurred Within a Home Environment

Most of the abuse cases did not occur in an IFB church, but occurred in a separate environment and most at home. Acts of abuse that occur by a parent, spouse, sibling that occur within the home are not so unique from similarly situated cases of abuse that one can justify blaming the IFB simply because the abuser was a member of an IFB church. The IFB is not full of perfect people, nor is the church as a whole. Christians are just as capable at committing heinous and violent acts as the non-Christian. Although the Bible is clear that such behavior should not even been once named among the saints (Eph 5:3), there is no justification whatsoever that the churches are responsible for what occurs in the homes of its members.

The temptation is to blame the church because had the offender followed God the way he/she OUGHT to have followed God the abuse would have never occurred. But because it DID occur, then it must be the churches fault. The pastor must have taught false doctrine and that caused the perpetrator to wake up one morning and molest or beat their child.

Thus one more reason why fundamentalists do not listen to our critics is because the accusations are often inaccurate, embellished, and in some cases, turned out to be completely false.

Abuse Has Lost It’s Meaning

The term “abuse” has been described as everything from being spanked to being told by a parent to make your bed. Demanding that a child adhere to certain house rules can cause irreparable emotional damage and is therefore considered abuse. Preaching on sin and judgment is not conducive to a productive healthy mentality and is therefore deemed “emotional abuse” (2 Timothy 4:2).

Critics of the IFB don’t simply limit abuse to sexual or physical abuse. Virtually anything that is taught that conflicts with a lifestyle of debauchery, homosexuality, drug use, discipline, morality, or even affirming that Christ is the only way to heaven are viewed as “abuse” and said to cause psychological harm. Terms such as “bible”, “Jesus”, “sin”, “repent” are seen as “triggers” and anytime a believer attempts-even in the most gracious of spirit-to offer prayer or Biblical support, such an effort is stifled by the “triggers” excuse.

According to all the best advice from the “accredited” psycho therapitsts, victims should seek to solve their own problems their own way first, and “religion” should be a last resort. The Bible is a “trigger” that can re-victimize the abused. So Jesus is out, and Dr. Be Yourowngod is in. After all, 8 years of secular education outweighs an omnipotent eternal God any day, and Jesus wasn’t “accredited” (John 7:15).

According to Darrell Dow, even the term “Biblical” is abusive. Christians should not use the term “Biblical” to define a particular belief. Because that would give the impression that the belief is based on the Bible, and we know that the IFB doesn’t really believe the Bible.

Fundamentalists Maintain A Different View Than The World

For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 1 Peter 4:3-4

The world thinks us “fundies” are strange. Well, we are a “peculiar people” (1 Peter 2:9). We do and believe things differently than what the rest of the world sees as good, positive and acceptable. We don’t buckle under the pressure of what our critics demand because “there is a way that seemeth right unto man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” Proverbs 16:25, and, “every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the LORD pondereth the hearts”, Proverbs 21:2.

Those who are not born again will not understand why we live differently (1 Cor 2:14) and the backslidden do not want to hear that their lifestyle is not pleasing to God. A person robbing a bank doesn’t want a lecture on greed anymore than a wayward Christian wants to be told they are robbing God by defying His commandments and living in spiritual adultery. Therefore the backslider must study the logic of the world and learn to accept it and promote it to ease his conscience and justify rejecting the holiness that God expects for those whom He bought by blood. Acts 20:28.

We preach forgiveness because Christ forgave us. Col 3:13. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Rom 5:8. The world wants vengeance. Forgiveness is not an option to the world because the flesh wants to be avenged. The carnal mind wants to make the offender suffer as much as they did, so it is unconscionable that one should cast their cares upon the LORD (Ps 55:22, 1 Peter 5:7) and let God mete out vengeance (Rom 12:19). To pray for those who persecute you and despitefully use you (Matt 5:44, Rom 12:14) is “fundy rhetoric”.

For the critics, it’s OK if Christ forgave THEIR sins, but don’t expect them to forgive YOURS. If the critic can not obtain their own vengeance, then they will join a group of like-minded critics and live their vengeance vicariously through the ire of other victims.

We preach hell or the lake of fire, because that is the destination of those who die without Christ. We do not preach it as a means of control or to install fear. (see our article on Would A Loving God Send Anyone To Hell). We preach hell for the same reason that hundreds of charity groups attempt to find a cure for cancer or diabetes. Michelle Obama and the New York City Mayor preach that unhealthy eating can lead to insurmountable health problems and liberals sing their praises. A Baptist tells a person that if he/she does not repent and receive Christ as Saviour they will spend an eternity in a burning lake of fire and we are labeled “hate mongers”.

We preach that salvation is by grace through faith, and that a believer is eternally secure in his/her salvation and can never lose what God wrought. Contrary to the misconception that Baptists teach outward appearance is necessary to please God, I have never seen one altar call in a Baptist church that did not emphasize that the sinner must forsake their own righteousness (Titus 3:5, Eph 2:8-9) and depend on the finished work of Christ and receive Him without relying on good works for salvation. We preach salvation by grace because the world believes that man is evolving and can somehow be good without God and get to heaven if they live a good life, never hurt anyone, be kind to all, give to the poor or join a church and get baptized. We preach that salvation is a “gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast”.

“Our righteousness are as filthy rags” sure doesn’t sound like “Baptists always emphasize the outward appearance”. “He must increase, I must decrease” doesn’t resemble the theme of Stop Baptist Predators.

We preach that Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way to heaven. Acts 4:12, John 14:6. Christianity is not a “religion” that is mutually corroborative with other beliefs; it is exclusive. The world believes that Jesus was just a good moral teacher if they even believe He existed at all (and there is more proof for the existence of Christ then there is for the existence of Abraham Lincoln). Muslims say Allah had no son, Buddhism and Hinduism deny that Jesus is God nor do they believe that Christ was crucified and raised from the dead. Yet the gospel of Jesus Christ is explained as Jesus dying for our sins, being buried and arising from the grave 3 days later (1 Cor 15:1-4) and that must be believed in order to be saved (Romans 10:9-10, 1 Thess 4:14)

We preach that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19-20) and that we are to glorify God in our bodies. Therefore we preach against drugs, and fornication, and adultery.

We preach that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it (Eph 5:25) thus we do not believe that husbands are permitted to control and abuse their wives. We preach that fathers are not to provoke their children to wrath but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (Eph 6:4). That rules out child abuse whether physical or sexual.

We preach separation because the Bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers (2 Cor 6:14) or those who call themselves my-way-frank-sinatrabelievers who walk like the rest of the world (1 Cor 5:11). God ordained the believer to walk in good works after salvation (Eph 2:10) and set the example of Christ, not act like the world and conform to it (Romans 12:1-2).

Fundamentalists don’t listen to critics because they have their own brand of what’s right and wrong, and most of the time, even though some of their accusations are correct (as were some of the accusations of the Pharisees, Matt 23:3) their manner of what constitutes the pursuit of a good moral person or what defines a Christian is warped. The church is expected to address sin of its members BY its members (1 Cor 6) and just because some have failed to follow that, doesn’t mean we now must forsake our views and turn our ears over to the worlds way of addressing church conflict.

Fundamentalists are not better than anyone else. We are not sinless, and not perfect  and it is certainly not a requirement to be a Baptist to be saved. Yet critics attempt to vilify the history of Baptists and even mock the “trail of blood” but when confronted by a Bible believer that can defend the history, tuck tail and run off to the closest gossip closet for immoral support. Our critics attempt to create their own model of the ideal fundamentalist, and then add lumpy appendages and deformed extremities to their model and criticize the model for not looking like a Michelangelo sculpture.

Independent fundamental Baptists have helped the homeless, fed the hungry, built hospitals, and have a genuine compassion for those in need of Christ. The few examples of those who have been offenders are not representative of the ilk of fundamentalism as a whole. And because of the dishonesty of the critics, their embellishment of abuses, lack of consistency in conveying sentiments for certain classes of victims, their misrepresentation of what fundamentalists believe, and sometimes just outright fabrication of allegations are some of the primary reasons why fundamentalists don’t listen to our critics.

Our standard is the life of Jesus Christ as written in God’s preserved word, not the humanistic logic of the world:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.” 1 Cor 1:18-24

Now if you will excuse me, I am going to go abuse a hamburger and wait patiently for the next critic to publish an article “Do Right Christians Calls Victims Wackos” who refuse to recognize the audience this article is directed toward.