Archive for October, 2012

Find A Counselor

Posted: October 24, 2012 in Find A Counselor

To find a Certified Biblical Counselor. Please click the following link for the NANC (National Association of Nouthetic Counselors) orginization.

While I do not necessarily agree with all of the doctrinal positions of this organization, I do understand the need for victims of crime and/or legitmate church abuse to get help from a counselor that uses Scripture without the influence of worldly psychology or the integration of “Christian psychology” and considering that some of the abuses occurred within the person’s church, he/she may be reluctant to seek help from someone within their church. There are also many fundamental Baptists that use the NANC format to train Biblical counselors. For female victims I strongly recommend you seek a FEMALE counselor, and I am also attaching to this page a commentary by Jim Newheiser called “The Tenderness Trap” as to the importance of the choice.

NANC strongly recommends utilizing counseling through the local church, but understandably if you have a fear of the local church leaders I would recommend going this route.

FIND A COUNSELOR

                                                                                                                                           THE TENDERNESS TRAP

The Tenderness Trap (by Jim Newheiser)
(The following is a semi-fictional compilation of various experiences of Christian leaders.)
It happened again. Another Pastor has fallen. This time, though, it wasn’t a liberal or a glitzy
television preacher. It was a man of sound doctrine with over twenty years of faithful ministry, a
man whose godliness, giftedness, and soundness of doctrine was widely recognized. Tragically, he
has been disqualified for ministry.
The sheep he served are wounded and confused. Some feel betrayed by the man who was a father
and a brother to them. Their faith has been shaken. Others are angry at the other leaders for their
handling of the problem. Couldn’t they have shown more compassion to a man who had served
them faithfully for so long? Still others, – including jealous husbands think that he got off too
easy. How could he have abused his trust in this way?
There is concern that the church may not be able to complete the building program begun under
this pastor’s leadership. There is even concern that the body to which he devoted his life will be
divided. This was a man who contended for sound doctrine. He was a mentor who guided many
young pastors. Now he has fallen. “Tell it not in Gath lest the enemies of truth rejoice!”
The pastor himself, whose whole life has been ministry, faces great challenges. How will he
support his family with so few marketable skills? Where will he go to church? What role will he
play? How can he face his wife and children after what he has done? They too must live with the
consequences of his actions.
The questions abound, including some that are relevant to others in ministry: How did it happen?
Where did he go wrong? And how can you and I avoid following in his tragic footsteps?
This pastor did not actually commit adultery. He was and is very happy in his marriage. He was
not looking for sexual excitement or fulfillment. He simply fell into “The Tenderness Trap.” He
got too emotionally involved with women he was counselling. In so doing, he crossed some lines
and is no longer above reproach. Ruinous sin is the culmination of a process (James 1:14-15). In
this article, I would like to help you to avoid taking even the first step.
Falling into the Tenderness Trap
How it Started.
These situations do not come about because the counselee or the counselor begins with wicked
motives (Prov. 7:6ff). Most people in these cases begin with good intentions and wind up with
disaster. Specifically, most individuals who come for pastoral counseling are women, and most of
these women have problems in their marriages. They seek help from their pastor to learn how to
better please God.
The pastor/counselor wants to faithfully minister the Word to such a woman. He has probably
taken precautions to avoid temptation or even the appearance of evil, by keeping his office door
open and having his secretary nearby. Still, the counselor and the counselee are facing a situation
filled with danger. The woman’s husband doesn’t have time for her and won’t listen to her. The
pastor, meanwhile, patiently and tenderly listens to her problems expressing concern and
compassion. He is the spiritual leader her husband has never been. In their sessions together this
unhappy woman is finding genuine help from the encouragement her pastor is giving her from the
Scriptures. She seems to be drawing closer to the Lord. At the same time, the pastor is gaining a
sense of fulfillment from this success. He has seen all too many “failures” in ministry.20
Danger Signs.
As the counseling relationship progresses, both the counselor and counselee may begin to have
thoughts that should have alerted them to danger before it was too late. The woman may be
tempted to think, “If only my husband were a spiritual leader like him,” or “I wish that I had
married a man like this, who cares about my feelings.” Of course, if the counselor/pastor were
ever to become involved with her, these very qualities would be betrayed by their bond.
The pastor, for his part, may find that he enjoys having a woman so dependent on him for advice
and support. He enjoys meeting her emotional needs successfully and feels protective of her. He
finds himself looking forward to their meetings. He may even realize that he is having more
intimate conversations with her than with his wife.
Neither the pastor nor the counselee has any intention of moving towards a romantic relationship,
but bonding is taking place. By now, the thought of emotional involvement has probably occurred
to one or both of them. They may both be intrigued by the male-female electricity of their
friendship, though thus far it is “low voltage”. To the degree that they recognize this temptation,
the two put these thoughts quickly aside, perhaps with a prayer of confession asking for strength.
The pastor may tell himself that this is a way that Satan is tempting him, and that he needs to be
strong. After all, counseling women is part of his job as an undershepherd in God’s flock. The
woman, meanwhile, trusts her pastor as a man of God. She can’t imagine that anything
inappropriate could happen.
Lines Crossed.
At some point in the counseling sessions a line is crossed. One of them realizes that they have
gone too far. Perhaps the pastor finds himself violating some his own rules, meeting with this
woman alone in the office, or failing to tell his wife everything he should about the length, content,
and frequency of their meetings. Perhaps there is physical contact, a hug or holding hands, which
outwardly appears to be brotherly, yet the pair experience mixed emotions. Both of them find that
they are enjoying the attention, attraction, and emotional involvement.
Finally, the pastor is getting worried. He realizes that he has gone too far, but now the price of
corrective action seems too high. If he goes to his fellow elders and confesses his fault, he would
experience terrible embarrassment. They might make a mountain out of a molehill. What if this
woman’s husband gets upset, or others in the church learn about this? Gossips would have a field
day and his ministry could be ruined. Those inside or outside of the church who have sought an
opportunity to discredit him would have their chance. If he were to tell his wife, she would be
deeply hurt. She might also misunderstand and think that there is something wrong with her.
So the pastor rationalizes, perhaps what he is doing isn’t so bad after all. He is still preaching
powerfully. Things seem to be going smoothly enough at home. God must not think that he is
wrong, otherwise he and the church wouldn’t be so blessed. New members are coming. New
ministries are being established. Why rock the boat? After all, he hasn’t actually committed
adultery. He is a strong Christian leader. He can keep the situation under control without
involving or upsetting others.
A Ministry Ruined.
If one keeps playing with fire, sooner or later he will get burned. “When lust has conceived, it
gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished it brings forth death” (James 1:15). Soon, perhaps
the “brotherly” hug or pat on the back is followed by a short kiss – then a longer one, or a touching21
which is clearly more than “brotherly”.
We might ask, “Why didn’t one of them stop this when it happened?” While outwardly both of
them were outwardly treating their relationship as purely pastoral, the emotional intimacy they had
developed led very naturally to this point. Though both of them may be shocked on one level, it
seems very natural on another.
What happens next can vary. Many couples will go on to commit adultery. Some will still not
cross that line, but will continue taking fire into their bosom (Prov. 6:27). The great majority will
not stop until they are caught. A few will finally turn themselves in. But all will suffer greatly,
and will watch others suffer as a consequence of their sin.
Avoiding the Tenderness Trap
How can you avoid falling into the tenderness trap? I have found several principles to be essential.
1. Don’t Trust Yourself. Some men will say, “This could never happen to me.” Such a man will
talk about how happy and fulfilled he is in his marriage. Furthermore, he knows that he is strong.
He has never felt attracted to any members of his congregation or come close to crossing any lines
in counseling relationships.
Some men are confident that they are safe because of their older age or mediocre looks. Paul says,
“Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall” (1 Cor. 10:12). A friend reminded me that
women are most prone to fall for the tender, caring men who know how to speak words of
kindness. Many good (and even unattractive) men have fallen who would never have imagined
that it could happen to them.
It is important to remember that you make your way down the road to ruin one step at a time.
Satan knows that he probably cannot tempt you to immediately fall into adultery, so he is patient
to bring you to that point little by little.
2. Make Strict Rules – and keep them. I suggest the following:
• Do not meet alone with a female counselee if you are not visible to others. Keep the
door open.
• Do not talk about the physical relationship in marriage without the husband present.
• Do not touch a female counselee in a counseling session. I have had women weep in
my office, even to the point of collapse. I keep my desk between myself and them no
matter what. If a woman needs a hug, I ask another woman from the church to take
care of her. If a counselee tries to touch you, I recommend pulling quickly away, and
making it clear that this just isn’t done.
As you explain these rules to your counselee, tell her that you hold to them not because you don’t
trust her or because she can’t trust you, but because you want to ensure that both of you remain
above reproach. Apply your rules uniformly – don’t make exceptions for unattractive women!
If you find yourself wanting to bend or break the rules take it as a warning sign and immediately
go to your fellow elders and your spouse.
3. Respect your counselee’s marriage relationship. When you are counseling a married woman,
remember that she is under her husband’s authority. You do not want to undermine that
relationship. Ordinarily, if a woman is having problems with her marriage, her husband should
also be present for counseling. It is not right to talk about his sins without him present. 1
For example, the CCEF introductory course videos might be useful for this purpose. Also, see “Why Women
Should Counsel Women” by Elyse Fitzpatrick, from the CCEF San Diego Summer Institute in Biblical Counseling,
(1994).
22
Ordinarily, you should not meet with a woman without her husband’s knowledge and approval, an
exception might be if the husband is an unbeliever. The exceptional cases should be treated with
the greatest caution. One pastor whom I respect will not meet more than twice with a woman
without her husband present.
4. Get other women involved in counseling women. Titus 2:3-5 states that older women are
uniquely qualified to help younger women be godly wives and mothers. In many ways, they may
be better able to address many problems than you are. My recent practice has been to meet with a
woman a couple of times. I then place her in a more intense counseling/discipleship relationship
with a more mature woman under my supervision. This eliminates many of the problems that
could occur in a male-female counseling situation.
Many pastors lack such older women in their churches. In addition to asking God to raise up such
women, pastors must select women with potential for such a ministry and train them.
1
5. Remain Accountable. Keep your wife and your fellow elders aware of your counseling
appointments and the general subject matter of your meetings. Within that circle, absolute
confidentiality must be maintained; however, your marriage is more important than a woman’s
privacy. If a woman counselee is unwilling to agree to this condition, decline to meet with her.
If you are experiencing any “warning signs” or if you fear that you may have crossed some lines
yourself, tell your fellow elders immediately (2 Tim. 2:22). Seek and submit to their counsel.
Entrust yourself to the Lord through them. It is much easier to snuff out a small flame than to fight
a raging forest fire. I know more than one pastor, who when he started to feel tempted or attracted
to a woman, immediately made himself strictly accountable to others and the situation was
diffused before disaster struck. If there is any question in your mind, seek accountability!
Remember how deceitful the heart is (Prov. 14:12). One of the great dangers many pastors face is
that they are on such a pedestal, they don’t have any peers in the church in whom they feel that
they can safely confide. Such a lofty perch is a precarious one.
Advice to Those Who Have Fallen
The great majority of men continue in sin until they are caught (busted). Usually, when a pastor is
initially confronted about a compromising situation, there is either denial or minimization: “I’m
just a man.” “We didn’t actually commit adultery.” “Everyone deserves a second chance.” “I’ll
never do it again.” Usually the pastor is concerned with keeping the matter as private as possible
in order to protect himself, his family, and the church. I, however, hold very little hope for the
restoration of a man who persistently violates his conscience and has to be caught and proven
guilty before he “repents”. It is hard to believe that the “repentance” shown at this point is any
more than preservation of pride, livelihood, and reputation.
If you as a pastor or a counselor have acted inappropriately, the best thing you can do is to confess
your sin to your fellow leaders, the church, and your spouse. Accept the consequences. Submit to
whatever discipline your fellow leaders impose upon you. Warn others against the same sins.
Willingly relinquish your office and find a way to honorably support your family. Don’t expect to
be restored to office or paid ministry in the future. Take comfort in God’s forgiveness (Psalm 51).
God has borne fruit through you in the past despite of your sin. God will use you in new ways in23
the future.
Advice to Fellow Leaders
As you minister to a pastor or counselor in such a situation, deal with firmness and love. While
many may be concerned for the parties involved in the sin, you too are going through a traumatic
time of heartache. Realize that you are likely to be criticized for your actions by some members of
the congregation. Some will think you are too strict, others will be upset because you are too
lenient. You may be tempted to disclose less than the whole truth out of compassion for those who
sinned, but the only way to avoid gossip and false accusations against you is to fully lay out the
charges (1 Tim. 5:20). If the fallen brother is willing to submit to discipline, it may be appropriate
for the elders to provide financially for his transition to “secular work”. They should also offer
ongoing counsel and accountability which will, it is hoped, lead to his restoration to usefulness
(but not office).
You will also need to help the others who have been affected. Those who have sinned must seek
forgiveness from those who have been wronged (spouses, children, and the church at large). The
woman and the other family members involved will also need counsel. Finally, the church at large
will have great needs. Those who have trusted and loved their pastor may be terribly disillusioned.
They should be reminded that only Christ is sinless. The fact that their leader has fallen does not
negate the benefits they received from his ministry in the past. They should be encouraged to look
to the Lord as our perfect head and example, and to watch themselves.
When time comes to hire a new pastor, seek to practice genuine plural leadership and mutual
accountability, rather than putting him on a dangerous pedestal.
A Final Word to Those Who Haven’t Fallen
What is your goal in ministry? Do you want to have a big church? Do you want to have a
reputation as a great preacher? My goal is that when my life and ministry are ending, I can say
with Paul, “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith” (2 Tim.
4:7). I want to arrive at the finish line without having been disqualified (1 Cor. 9:27). Regardless
of the size and scope of my life’s work, I want to be found faithful at the end – that I have not done
anything to bring hurt and disgrace upon the Name of the Lord and His church.

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Trisha (Patricia) Kee/Lacroix is the founder of the ‘Do Right Hyles Anderson’ movement along with Jocelyn Zichterman,  among several other “DO RIGHT” groups and the Fundamental Revolution (FR). We are first going to discuss the FR logo, then Linda Hyles Murphy’s influence, followed by the beliefs, practices and endorsements of Trisha that clearly show the cultic and occultic nature of this group. (UPDATE March 25: Further evidence has surfaced that adds credence to the claims of this article that show Trisha giving credit to a psychic for the success of her personal life and HER group here)

*Mid section was painted over by sender due to the lewd appearance

It must be kept in mind that most people think of “occult” as some blatant devil worshiping monster, with satanic rituals, sacrifices, blood drinking maniacs, and although there are a few religions and groups that actually do practice that, the not-so-blatant forms of it are more sinister. The Bible not only condemns the blatant cults, but also the seemingly innocent ones that most Christians are too naive and ignorant to see through. “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:11. The critics on Trisha’s site who make lite of the accusations posted here, who think it’s OK for a Christian to quote Buddha, approve of atheist and homosexuals criticizing the Bible, a group leader who praises “the book of the dead” are MOCKING GOD and are playing a dangerous game with matters they have obviously not studied. It is more convenient for them to mock the evidence then to give the facts an honest evaluation.

Some of these issues that we begin with may seem petty to the average reader, but you have to understand their importance to the persons who utilized them to correctly assess their agenda.

THE FUNDAMENTAL REVOLUTION LOGO

The link to their website is posted after this paragraph, and the first thing you will notice is the logo at the top of the page. It has the Fundamental Revolution with the evol of Revolution written backwards and highlighted in red which is a well known occult practice that is used to identify cult members of particular sects, and with the highlighted red portion of ‘love’, since we Americans read left to right, the first thing you see is EVOL or EVIL) {The British occultist Aleister Crowley chose the spelling to differentiate the occult from state magic and defined it as “the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will”, including both “mundane” acts of will as well as ritual.  *** . Alleister Crowley stated that to use words to effect change  for “the law of reversal” one must ” learn to write backwards. . .” (Magick in Theory and Practice, 1929). Not only does the word appear to say evil at first glance, but the law of reversal means that by placing love backwards in the word it will effect hate towards fundamentalism. And if this seems to “out there”, consider that a recent post from a DRHAC member was praising the Church of Satan founded by Anton LaVey who relied heavily on the writings of Alleister Crowley. (see our article on Trisha Lacroix Correction.)

 Fundamental Revolution site

Now once you see the website and the logo, keep in mind all of the above about the backward writing. Now let me show you something that is FREAKY. This is the url for their logo. Go ahead, click it http://fundamentalrevolution.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/logo2.png Most urls for photo locations dont have a separation of the logo as this one does. The website designer used an “I-frame” block for the logo, but allowed any user that inspects the element the see what you just saw. EVOL. Within occultic groups, symbolism and logo is everything.

Admin Ty Duncan, with Approval by Trisha Lacroix, blaspheming Jesus Christ

This may seem petty or insignificant to some (and we’re not done yet) but it is very significant to cult members. And those who overlook these simple little matters never stop and ask, just why DID they write their logo like this?

The next issue is with their slogan:

OUT OF THE ASHES BEAUTY WILL RISE

Now at first glance this would appear to be taken from Isaiah 61:3. However, keep in mind that Satan always mimics matters belonging to God. 2 Cor 11:4.  Isaiah 61:3 God details an EXCHANGE of beauty for ashes, meaning He takes your ashes and gives beauty, there is NOTHING in Isaiah 63:1 that implies that the beauty ARISES FROM THE ASHES.

So then where does this come from if not Isaiah? Glad you asked:

The term ‘out of the ashes beauty will rise’ is a VERY SPECIFIC term used in the Illuminati and Free Masonry. It is based on Egyptian mythology that the Pheonix will burn and arise from the ashes back to life. In the Illuminati, it is the story of Lucifer flying out of the ashes of hell to reign in beauty on the earth. For your own research you can visit the links below from the cults own websites that explain this.

Now this does not mean that Trisha and/or any of her group are members are an actual member of these groups, but this serves to show where their slogan is derived, and considering Trisha’s admission to studying numerous other religions, it is very likely that she has studied and incorporated the beliefs from these groups from which this slogan is derived.

MASONIC WEBSITE

PHOENIX HISTORY

ILLUMINATI

THE LOTUS FLOWER

There is further symbolism in the groups Fundamental Revolution Facebook page where T-Shirts are sold with an alternative FR logo containing the Yellow Lotus (see here)which is the Tibetan Buddhist Symbol (Handbook of Tibetan Buddhist Symbols) and one of Trisha’s favorite resources to post quotes on the Do Right Hyles Anderson FB page is from the Tibetan Book of the Dead (sceenshot posting after this article or click here if you don’t feel like waiting to get to the end!).

The website is not complete yet (with the exception of the “Make a Donation” tab) but there is enough there to PROVE that there are occult and cultic themes within Trisha’s FR group.

LINDA HYLES MURPHY

We believe that Lindy Murphy has been burned by her father, and unfortunately has turned to faith in Jesus Christ to the god of humanism. While we are not saying for certain that Linda’s involvement with Trisha goes beyond Trisha merely using Linda’s testimony on the FR site, we believe it is still necessary to show the background of Linda Murphy, and how it has influenced Trisha.

The first video you see, is the testimony of Linda Hyles Murphy, a 17:40 documentary of her life in the “cult” of First Baptist Church of Hammond. But what most people will miss is the group she belongs to that sponsored this event. Now this part may be a little boring but it’s important to show the foundation of Linda Murphy’s influence on these groups.

The group is TED (Technology Engineering and Development)  Pay attention now!

Ted’s primary spokesperson, Chris Anderson gives the following statement on the TED website:

ED’s Chris Anderson says the rise of web video is driving a worldwide phenomenon he calls Crowd Accelerated Innovation — a self-fueling cycle of learning that could be as significant as the invention of print. But to tap into its power, organizations will need to embrace radical openness. And for TED, it means the dawn of a whole new chapter …”

Crowd Accelerated Innovation is an oft used term used by Illuminati as a tool that will be used in the future to BRAINWASH mass media, and those who know prophecy know that the antichrist will certainly need technology such as this to reach a worldwide audience. This technology could likely be what God uses as described in 2 Thess ch2 “and God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie”. There was  controversy over these type of techniques  as far back as  President Eisenhower warning the American’s in a farewell speech of the dangers of such programs. There is even an official government patent for the use of ‘mind control’ devices ( US PATENT 5159703 ). This technology was credited for the surrender of thousands of Iraqi troops during the Gulf War.

Although this technology may be far-fetched without evidence to support its veracity, it is the BELIEF in the technology that poses an issue for a Christian who supports these groups.

Chris Anderson goes on to say, “… the rich use of multiple technologies, formats and approaches for the most powerful possible impact on an audience. But the term covers more than just form and format. Content will span the full spectrum of knowledge TED stands for, from dazzling technology and leading-edge science to the richest veins of human creativity and interconnection.”[1] If that isn’t clear enough new age globalist language there’s more.

There is a list of primary sponsored speakers for the group. Most of them are all labeled as “Futurist”. What is a futurist?  An occult clan. [Not to be confused with Futurist Theology which is the belief that Revelation and many prophecies of the Bible have a yet future fulfillment as opposed to the Historicist and Preterist view that Revelation has been fulfilled.]They are concerned about a “leaderless world order” [2] , promote a “NEW AGE of business”  and yes, they have a religious agenda[3] (imagine that, no really, imagine…oh but hey, Al Gore was a member so at least they are concerned about global warming!)

TED is a PR arm for transhumanism [3.1] Click here for a list of TED sponsored videos that cover a variety of humanist topics

Speakers for TED are known as ‘Fellows’. This is part of the ritualist labeling of Free Masonry

Now let’s get back to Linda. In her video, she champions a counselor for her success, Mary Vernon. Mary Vernon is a counselor at Crossroads Counseling & Neurofeedback. If you read her short bio, “”Each of us has been in the marriage and family therapy field for over 20 years. During this time, we have looked at alternative treatments but found none with results as significant as neurofeedback. Now, because of advances in computers and more accurate ways to view and understand the brain, neurofeedback is often the treatment of choice for many conditions, providing better results faster.” [4]

Neurofeedback therapy, also called neurofeedback training (NFT), is method of teaching a trainee or patient to alter physical and psychological states. It is accomplished by using monitoring equipment that provides real time feedback to patient about their brain activity. It is well known that it was developed by New Age medical practitioners. It is no more than the same methods used in Scientology to brainwash you from symptoms but with advanced electron implements.

Not one time in Linda’s speech does she mention the Bible or Jesus Christ. In her 3 values that she learned, the first one was  “Freedom. Freedom to determine MY OWN VALUE SYSTEM” well that explains why Jesus was never mentioned. In fact, I can’t remember seeing any quotes from Trisha mentioning the name of Jesus. You have to be careful of those who use “religious language” (like Obama, and then gives a speech to a college group criticizing the Bible [5] ). Just because someone uses the word “God” and “grace” in their rhetoric does not mean they are CHRISTIAN.  Ask Trisha what they mean by “redemption” without Christ! (You know , kind of like how the NIV explains redemption while removing the “through his blood” part in Col 1:14)

Linda makes it perfectly clear she doesn’t want religion discussed on her facebook page.[6]She would rather talk on a patio where “There is nothing like nature to help us connect with our souls. “[7] and for $150 a session (with a 6 session minimum) you will need a financial consultant and a second job. Linda’s explanation of her services make it clear that she is a futurist. The opening statement of their description of Life Coaching “Coaching is future-focused, motivating, inspiring, energizing, positive and action-driven” is a clear indication of that as it is the same philosophy of the other futurist speakers for TED. Whatever ever happened to “take no thought for the morrow”. Jesus was apparently not using” positive, transformational conversation.”  According to Linda’s testimony you don’t need Christ because “You do have within you what it takes to set yourself free; sometimes you just need someone else to help you tap into those inner resources.”

All of the above with the background from TED and Mary Evans provide the foundation that has shaped Linda Murphy’s philosophy which is 110% pure unadulterated humanistic, new age occultism.

TRISHA LACROIX

Since this article was first published, Trisha has admitted to embracing the beliefs and teachings of the New Age movement, Buddhism, and other various religions, so we have eliminated much of the former material that was used to prove what she was involved in.

On November 9, 2012, Trisha stated:

“13. My religious beliefs… I am not religious. I am not a member of any church. I am spiritual. I take ideas/beliefs and I have created my own internal faith. Everything from Christian, Buddhist, New Age beliefs and have incorporated them into my life. I do believe in God. I pray constantly…my life is a prayer. I meditate. I read books on how to become a better person. I believe in Jesus as my Savior. But I do not and will not conform to a religion. Religion separates people and most wars are started because of religious differences. In my opinion, religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been through hell. That is my belief. I do not think anyone needs to believe how I believe. Its my own faith. Its personal. And I believe everyone should worship in a way that feeds their soul… So I support our Baptist people, Atheists, Catholics, Buddhists, New Agers, Methodists, Lutherans…whatever you are… if it makes you a better person…I support your belief system.”

Trisha also belongs to a group called People of the Second Chance, and this appears to be where she gets her definition of “grace” from.PEOPLE OF THE SECOND CHANCE, and their official website here
This group is by far no where near Christian and is about as HUMANISTIC as it gets. Their members use the term radical grace, and grace freely with absolutely NO MENTION OF CHRIST. Their motto is “Overthrow judgment, liberate love”. They have 5 “lifemarks”: courage, tenacity, empathy, purpose, hope. None of the “lifemarks” mention purpose as being crucified with Christ and hope as being the blessed hope of Titus 2:13. Their definition is that “Hope lifts the human spirit and believes in a better tomorrow.” This is pure humanism. The “human spirit” is born wicked and deceitful. It must be crucified with Christ. Furthermore, this “second chance” philosophy has it’s roots in L. Ron Hubbards Scientology cult. It began as “Deadly Vipers” but was shut down because of racism.

There is a list of their “target audience” and number 4 states, “4. You have experienced or you are currently seeking a powerful second chance MOMENT that will radically alter your life and mission.”(emphasis added)What kind of “MOMENT” could there possibly be that would change ones life that can do a better job than Christ?? POTSC explain that “We are radically inclusive and work diligently to produce “human” messages and not religious ones.” (emphasis added)

.

Although Trisha appears to use a progressive Christianity approach within her group, the intentions of the group were made clear by the partner that helped her start the group, Jocelyn Zichterman.

“Trisha Lacroix MEMBERS>>>>I wanted to take a moment why we are here…it’s to support victims. To validate one another. It’s to find healing, care about one another and to experience radical grace. I’d like to caution everyone about what you post. The outside world see’s this group…….We have found something enriching that we never thought possible. We found ourselves and a faith (regardless of what it is) that works. Trisha. (emphasis added).

THE ABSURDITY OF UNITY FOR A COMMON CAUSE

Let’s use an example here. Say we Christians are angry about American policies, and we want to vent our frustrations in hopes that someone will hear our voices. So some concerned angry Americans create a group. But, we need some followers. Who has the most in common with us that is angry enough at America to join us? Aha!!!! MUSLIMS So we will create a group and invite all the Muslims to join us to criticize American politics.

Now if you believe that would be absurd, if you are a Christian mad at the church, regardless of the fact you may have legitimate reasons, why on earth would you join a group of unbelievers, atheists, new agers and occult adherents to discuss your complaints against the church??

While we applaud Trisha’s effort to want to see change in certain fundamentalist churches and colleges, her motives are highly questionable, and the method in which she has advocated have served to destroy the faith of many which can not be entirely blamed on the abusers within the IFB.

A WORD TO THE CHRISTIANS

The Bible is clear that as a believer we should not:

14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you” 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

While many may be angry at the abuse that has occurred in the IFB as well as other churches, God will still hold each one of us accountable for how we respond to it. Abuse is not the fault of Jesus, and it’s not as though Christ has been taken by surprise and is unaware of the abuse. But to respond to abuse by turning ones back on God and sharing in fellowship with those who are hostile toward Christianity as a whole only serves to exacerbate the harm caused to victims by separating them from the only One that truly loves and understands them like nobody else, for He too, was abused, mocked, shamed and ultimately crucified.

Bad communications corrupt good manners (I Cor 15:33), and the Psalms warn us that the Israelites mingled with the heathen, and learned their ways. Ps 106:35.  God NEVER condones any child of His to fellowship with a group of unbelievers, homosexuals, atheists, and other religions that are contrary to the gospel in order to achieve a “greater good”. There is no greater good on earth than sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, how He died for sinners and only in Him can one be made whole.

We thank and praise the Lord that many Christians have left these groups, and we hope and pray that Trisha as well as leaders of the other “Do Right” groups would consider what they are doing to others and consider even their own beliefs that are contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Sources to get started on studying the New Age Movement.

The New Age Movement. Watchmen

 Psycho Heresy Awareness Ministry

 The Seduction of Christianity Pt4

Invisible Empire: A New World Order Definded (Video)

  • By Charlie H. Campbell

    What is preterism?

    Preterism is the belief that the prophecies of Matthew 24 (spoken of by Jesus on the ) and the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation were largely or completely fulfilled in the past, particularly in the events leading up to, and surrounding the destruction of  by the Romans in A.D. 70.

    For those of you that are new to Bible study, Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation largely have to do with the tumultuous events leading up to Christ’s second coming.

    Those who adhere to preterism, refer to themselves as “preterists.”

    The word “preterism” is based on the Latin word preter, which means:

    “past”

    And that’s what preterists believe.

    Preterists believe that those things that you and I would consider future events on the prophetic calendar…

    –the Rapture

    –the Abomination of Desolation

    –the Tribulation

    …are all things of the past.

    Preterists believe that these things were fulfilled in the turmoil and political upheaval that ensued when  was sacked by  and most of its inhabitants were slaughtered in A.D. 70.

    –Preterists even believe that Jesus came back in A.D. 70!!

    (Some preterists say He came back spiritually and invisibly in an act of judgment against the Jews in , and some say physically.)

    We’ll talk more about that in a couple of minutes.

    The Growth of Preterism

    Preterism, as a way of viewing Bible prophecy, has been growing very quickly, and it only seems to be gaining momentum.

    Why is that?

    There has been a tremendous increase in persuasive books, pamphlets, tapes, and websites by preterists.

    A very influential Christian author and teacher by the name of R.C. Sproul adopted a preteristic view of the end times [eschatology] back in the 1990’s, and released a book, “The Last Days According to Jesus,” outlining Sproul’s preteristic views regarding Bible prophecy.

    Hank Hanegraaff, who is a big fan of R.C. Sproul, and the president of The Christian Research Institute [C.R.I.] has just released the first of a series of fictional books about the Book of Revelation.

    The first book in this series is called: The Last Disciple

    In this book, Hank officially announces that he too, the “Bible Answer Man,” has adopted this preteristic view.

    This book, “The Last Disciple” (and the others that will follow), tell the story of Christians living through the events spoken of in Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation as though they already took place in the events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

    Hank’s desire, with this book, is to change the way people view Bible prophecy.

    This is an excerpt from a letter Hank, sent out to supporters of the C.R.I. ministry, shortly before the release of his book.

    Hank said…

    “Indeed, this initial novel is intended to be the first “shot” in a debate that I believe will produce a paradigm shift — a change in the way many in the church look at the end times… Indeed, in The Last Disciple book (and series), you will understand what the Bible really teaches regarding the end times.”

    Q. Did you catch that?

    Hank is hoping that his book produces “a paradigm shift — a change in the way many in the church look at the end times.”

    Advertisements for the book on C.R.I.’s website have said…

    “What if the prophecies of Revelation have already been fulfilled?…Discover the “code” of Revelation and get a whole new understanding of this powerful book.”

    Here is a copy of a recent edition of the Christian Research Journal, a C.R.I. publication.

    On the back cover is an advertisement for his book. It says in big letters:

    “What if everything you’ve read about the Rapture is wrong?”

    According to preterists, everything you’ve learned or heard about the rapture is wrong.

    –According to preterists, there will be no rapture!

    –And there is no coming time of Tribulation, that unbelievers need fear

    –There is no coming Antichrist, or mark of the beast.

    None of that.

    These things, they say, are false teachings or have already taken place.

    So, as you can imagine, with the release of Hank’s book, Christians are going to be facing some challenging questions about preterism and the end times in the months ahead.

    There are two kinds of preterism that are popular today.

    1. Full preterism

    2. Partial preterism

    1. Full Preterism

    Adherents to full preterism believe that all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled, including…

    –the Great Tribulation

    –the Second Coming of Jesus

    –the bodily resurrection of believers

    –and the Great White Throne Judgment.

    Some preterists are even so bold as to say that the rapture occurred in A.D. 66 [J. Stuart Russell] and that we are living in an inaugurated new heavens and the new earth (talked about in Revelation 21-22)

    Of course, they have to spiritualize away numerous verses to try and explain what John really meant when he said there would be no more death, or mourning, or crying, pain, etc. (in Revelation 21:4).

    So that is the view of full preterism.

    Hank Hanegraaff and R.C. Sproul believe that this radical form of preterism is heretical.

    2. Partial Preterism

    Adherents to partial preterism (such as Hank Hanegraaff and R.C. Sproul) believe that Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation have only largely been fulfilled.

    Partial preterists (in contrast to full preterists) believe that Jesus only came back spiritually to judge Israel in A.D. 70, through the acts of the Roman army who destroyed the temple and killed a multitude of the Jews.

    Partial preterists believe there are some verses like Acts 1:9-11 that require Jesus to come back again in a physical and visible manner.

    (Other verses preterists believe point to a physical return would be:  1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 do speak of the future).

    What I’d like to do in our time together tonight is point out to you three passages that preterists point to that they believe support their view, after which I will make some comments.

    And then I will spend the rest of our time giving you reasons why the preterist view should be rejected.

    And I understand that many of you realize that the preterist position is not true, even now, and will be further convinced just a few minutes into our study. So it may sound redundant and even unnecessary that I go on with reason after reason why preterism should be rejected.

    But I plan on hitting this false teaching from many angles by unleashing an arsenal of truth on this topic.

    I do that for the sake of the preterist perhaps in our midst and for your sake. If a preterist brushes off or disagrees with one of my points, they will still have 8 or 9 others to consider.

    Matthew 24

    Turn with me to Matthew 24.

    The verse that we will be looking at is hands down the chief cornerstone, if you will, in the preterists’ defense of their view.

    Here in this chapter Jesus talks about the signs that will take place in the days leading up to His Second Coming in the clouds.

    He mentions, if you’ll notice…

    –in v. 15, the “Abomination of Desolation” [that time when the Antichrist will set himself up in the temple of God and declare himself to be God, 2 Thess. 2]

    –in v. 21, He mentions the time of the “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.” NAS

    –in v. 29, He mentions the sun and moon being darkened

    –and then in v. 30, He mentions “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky” NAS

    And then notice, v.34.

    This is the most popular proof text that preterists point to, there in v. 34, where Jesus says…

    Matthew 24:34

    34  “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” NKJV

    “Ahh…you see,” the preterists says, “Jesus promised that ‘this generation’—the generation that was alive at His time would by no means pass away until all of these things (the Abomination of Desolation, the great tribulation, the coming of the Son of Man) will have taken place.”

    Preterists insist, because of this verse, and a couple of others [that we’ll look at] that all of the things spoken about in this chapter, as well as…

    –the Tribulation events (spoken of in the Book of Revelation)

    –and Jesus’ second coming (mentioned here in Matt. 24 and in Revelation 19)…

    …had to have occurred before the generation of the people living at the time Jesus spoke, died off.

    Why? Well because, “Notice,” they say v. 34, “Jesus said…

    Matthew 24:34

    34  “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” NKJV

    Ahhhh…but what “generation” was Jesus talking about?

    A. Some have suggested that perhaps Jesus was not talking about the generation alive in His day, but about the Jewish race.

    But if you plug that interpretation into the text and reread the verse, it’s easy to see that this can’t be what Jesus meant.

    Let’s try plugging the words “Jewish people” into v. 34 where Jesus says “this generation.”

    Look there at v. 34…

    Matthew 24:34

    34  “Assuredly, I say to you, [the Jewish people] will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” NKJV

    Q. Could that have been what Jesus was saying?

    No.

    Jesus couldn’t have been saying that the Jewish people will by no means pass away until His second coming.

    The Jewish people are not going to pass away after Christ’s second coming.

    After His coming they will be present on the earth to go on to enjoy the unconditional promises that God made them in the Old Testament during Christ’s 1,000 year reign on the earth.

    It is during the Millennial reign of Christ that Jesus’ original disciples are going to rule over the 12 tribes of .

    Matthew 19:28

    28  So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, [this is an earthly scene according to Matthew 25:31 that happens after He returns to the earth] you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of [WHO?] Israel.” NKJV

    The nation of Israel will not pass away, even after Christ’s second coming.

    Q. So then, who was Jesus talking about when He said…

    Matthew 24:34

    34  “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” NKJV

    Jesus was looking into the future and talking about the generation of people who will be alive during the events that He just described: During the time of Tribulation unlike the world has ever seen, i.e. the Tribulation generation.

    There is good support contextually for this interpretation, and that is why numerous commentators including John Walvoord and John MacArthur adhere to this view as well.

    Notice the verse immediately preceding this one, v. 33.

    Jesus said…

    Matthew 24:33-34

    33 “even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation [What generation? the generation who in v.33, sees all those things.] will not pass away until all these things take place.”

    What things?

    Things like…

    –The Abomination of Desolation (v.15)

    –The time of great tribulation (v. 21)

    –The sun and moon being darkened (v. 29)

    That generation (the Tribulation generation) will not pass away without also seeing the coming of the Son of Man come to the earth (mentioned in v. 30).

    Those “things” will indicate that Jesus is near, even “right at the door” just as a budding fig tree [v.32] indicates that summer, the harvest time, is near.

    These verses will be a great encouragement to the Jewish people and others who come to faith in Christ during the Tribulation.

    It will be an encouragement to them to know that these things in the great time of tribulation are not going to go on forever.

    There is going to be an end. Jesus is going to come back, and look…

    Matthew 24:31

    31  “And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” NKJV

    We know that the “generation” Jesus was talking about in v. 34 could NOT have been the generation alive at the time He was speaking because that generation never saw “all” those things that would immediately precede His second coming.

    More could be said about this, but for time’s sake, let’s move on.

    Matthew 10

    Secondly, let’s turn to Matthew, chapter 10:23 a second proof text for the preterist position.

    Jesus said to his disciples…

    Matthew 10:23

    23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” NKJV

    “Ahhh, you see” the preterist says, “Jesus was saying that He would come again before His disciples would finish evangelizing the cities of Israel.”

    Is that what Jesus said there?

    No.

    He said (look at it again)…

    Matthew 10:23b

    “…you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”

    And that is exactly what happened, the disciples never did complete their preaching ministry in .

    Why?

    Because , to a large degree, would not receive their message.

    Jesus, even alludes to that (this unreceptivity) in the first part of the verse, Notice again there, v. 23…

    Matthew 10:23

    “When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. [That was going to be the response. Then Jesus says…] For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of  before the Son of Man comes.” NKJV

    Persecution and a prevailing Jewish unreceptivity to the Gospel prevented the disciples from going through all the cities of Israel!

    And so what did the disciples do?

    Acts 13:46, 18:6 (and other verses in the New Testament) tell us that they turned to the Gentiles.

    And thus Jesus’ prophecy was fulfilled. He said…

    Matthew 10:23

    “…you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” NKJV

    Even R.C. Sproul, a preterist, who believes that Jesus came back in A.D. 70 in the judgment of Israel, says in The New Geneva Study Bible [of which he is the General Editor] that this passage (Matthew 10:23) refers to, a future second coming of Christ to judge the earth.

    The Book of Revelation

    Thirdly, preterists point to several verses in the Book of Revelation that they say support their view.

    Some of the verses they point to are…

    Revelation 1:1

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants — things which must shortly shortly (táchos) take place.”

    Revelation 2:16

    “…I am coming to you quickly (Gk. tachús).” –JESUS

    Revelation 11:14

    “The third woe is coming quickly (tachús).”

    Revelation 22:12

    “Behold, I am coming quickly (tachús).” –JESUS

    And preterists say, “See! Jesus said, ‘I am coming to you quickly.’ The events spoken about here in the Book of Revelation had to have been fulfilled quickly, within a generation of Christ’s death.”

    Was Jesus saying that He would come back quickly, as in soon after John heard Him say these words?

    No.

    The Greek word translated “shortly,” or “quickly,” here in these passages in the Book of Revelation is the Greek word “tachús.”

    This word does not refer to a soon event but a swift event.

    The Arndt and Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament

    (p. 814) says this word means:

    “quick, swift,” or “speedy.”

    Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (p. 616) agrees, saying that the word tachu means:

    “quickly, speedily.”

    Vine’s Expository Dictionary of the New Testament Words (p. 913) also agrees saying that it means:

    “swift, quick…quickly.”

    John is not describing when the events will occur, but rather, he is describing the manner in which they will take place when they occur.

    He was saying that when these events took place, they would unfold suddenly, quickly, with great swiftness, even coming upon the world unexpectedly (like a thief in the night) [1 Thessalonians 5:2].

    Now, not only do these favorite verses of preterists (Matthew 24:34, Matthew 10:23, etc.) fail to support the preterist’s position, there are a multitude of other reasons why the preteristic view should be rejected.

    Some reasons why preterism should be rejected

    The first reason to reject the preterist interpretation is this…

    1.     None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s second coming as having already occurred.

    When we speak of church fathers we are talking about the leaders in the first three centuries of the church following the original disciples.

    There is zero indication, from known writings of the Church Fathers, that anyone understood the New Testament prophecies from a preterist perspective.

    There are no early church writings that teach that Jesus returned in the first century.

    None!

    If we, as God’s people, are supposed to understand the prophecies of the New Testament according to the preteristic view, you would think that the Holy Spirit would have left at least one written record of this.

    The idea that Jesus came back in A.D. 70 was a foreign idea during the first five centuries of the church and then only mentioned sporadically after that until about 400 years ago.

    It wasn’t until the early 17th century—when preterist thinking was applied by the Jesuit Catholic scholar named Alcazar to the book of Revelation—that it was given very serious consideration.

    So this is reason number one to reject preterism:  None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s second coming as having already occurred.

    The second reason to reject the preterist interpretation is this…

    2.     The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the church fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.

    Not only did the early church not refer to the second coming as a past event, but over and over they referred to it as a future event.

    The oldest extra-Biblical Christian document known to exist is a document called:

    The Didache (pronounced DID-ah-kay).

    It is a simple distillation of Bible doctrine from the early church.

    Most scholars believe it was written near the close of the first century, most likely around A.D. 80.

    It was used and cited by many of the church fathers, as well as by the historian Eusebius (Church History ), so it’s early existence is well documented.

    The full text of The Didache was rediscovered in  in 1873.

    The interesting thing that this document proves [see 16:3-8] is that those who actually lived through the events of A.D. 70 regarded Matthew 24:29-31—and the entire Olivet Discourse—as yet to be fulfilled prophecy [See p. 123-24 in John MacArthur’s book: The Second Coming]

    This early church document mentions…

    –the antichrist

    –the great tribulation

    –and the second coming of Christ as events that were yet to come.

    The Didache is a good piece of evidence from the very believers who lived through the events surrounding A.D. 70, that the preterist view is incorrect.

    Early church leaders, who stated in their writings, post A.D. 70, that they were looking forward to Christ’s Second Coming include…

    -Papias

    -Clement of

    -Ignatius

    -Polycarp

    -Justin Martyr

    Q. Who would know better as to whether Jesus came back in A.D. 70…

    –modern day preterists

    –or those who were alive in A.D. 70, and the years immediately following?

    I’ll trust those that were alive at the time.

    That is reason number two the preterist view should be rejected:

    2. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the Church Fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.

    The third reason to reject preterism is this…

    3.     The Book of Revelation was not even written until approximately A.D. 95.

    Preterists believe that the Book of Revelation was a prophecy written by the apostle John as a description of the things that would shortly come upon  and the Jewish people as their city would be destroyed by the Romans.

    There is compelling evidence however, in the writings of the church fathers, that the Book of Revelation was written by the apostle John, approximately 25 years after the events surrounding the destruction of  in A.D. 70.

    A. Irenaeus

    Irenaeus was the bishop in the city of  in modern day  and lived from A.D. 120 – 202. He was a disciple of Polycarp [the bishop of ], who was a disciple of the apostle John. His credibility as a witness is considered to be outstanding.

    In Irenaeus’ work entitled, “Against Heresies” chapter 13:18, Irenaeus tells us when John had his apocalyptic vision.

    He says:

    “We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; [that’s interesting, even Irenaeus believed that the Antichrist had not been revealed long after the destruction of !] for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him [i.e. John] who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that [speaking of John’s vision] was seen not very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”

    Irenaeus says John had his vision of the apocalypse “towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”

    Who was Domitian?

    Domitian was a Roman Emperor in the first century, whose reign did not even begin until A.D. 81!!

    His reign ended with his assassination on .

    Irenaeus places the date of the authorship of Book of Revelation long after the events of A.D. 70 and the destruction of .

    Probably around A.D. 95.

    B. Clement of

    Clement of , who lived from about A.D. 150 to 215 also testifies to a late date for the writing of the book of Revelation, when he mentions that John was exiled to the isle of  until, QUOTE:

    “after the death of the tyrant,” another reference to Domitian.

    C. Tertullian

    Tertullian, who lived from about A.D. 160 – 220, also placed John’s exile under Domitian.

    D. Victorinus

    Victorinus, the bishop of Pettau, who suffered martyrdom around A.D. 304, in his commentary on the Book of Revelation states that John had his vision of the apocalypse under the reign of Domitian.

    E. Eusebius

    Eusebius, known as “the father of church history” due to his classic work Ecclesiastical History, lived from A.D. 260 – 340.

    Several times in his writings he also dates the Book of Revelation to

    the reign of Domitian.

    One of the reasons why his witness is especially weighty is because he had a wealth of early Christian literature at his disposal.

    F. Jerome

    Jerome, the one who translated the Scriptures into Latin, a work we known as the Vulgate, lived from 340 to 419.

    He states clearly in two places, that John was banished under Domitian, and that that is when he wrote the Apocalypse.

    These statements from some of the greatest, most reliable names in church history, build a strong and compelling case that the Book of Revelation was written many years after A.D. 70, and the events surrounding the destruction of .

    I believe this evidence alone sends the whole preterist theory up in smoke.

    But there are other evidences, besides the writings of these men, that the Book of Revelation was completed late in the first century.

    For instance…

    1.

    appears as a prosperous city in Revelation 3:17.

    That’s interesting, because  was destroyed by an earthquake around A.D. 61, during Nero’s reign.

    How could  have recovered so quickly as to become prosperous by the time John wrote the Book of Revelation if indeed he did write the book in the early A.D. 60’s as Preterists claim?

    2. Polycarp’s To the Philippians

    Another evidence that the Book of Revelation was written after the destruction of  is something that Polycarp said.

    Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John, and the bishop of the church in . He served the Lord for eighty-six years, before he was martyred for his faith about A.D. 155.

    In his letter called To the Philippians (paragraph 11:3) he reveals that his church, the church in  was not even in existence in the days of the apostle Paul, leading up to the destruction of . [It is interesting that Symrna is never mentioned in the Book of Acts, or in any other New Testament epistle.]

    That’s interesting, because the church at  was around at the time John wrote the Book of Revelation. It is one of the seven churches mentioned in Revelation  (and again in 2:8).

    3. The Condition of the Church

    Another evidence for a late date for the completion of the Book of Revelation is the condition of the churches at the time John wrote.

    –The church at  had lost its first love (Rev. 2:4).

    –And others like  (Rev. 3:14f) had fallen from the Faith.

    These are better explained by a late date than an early one.

    If the Book of Revelation was written anytime after A.D. 70, then it could not have been a prophecy about the destruction of  as preterists claim.

    A fourth blow to the preterist position is…

    4.     The Roman emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist as preterists suggest.

    Because Preterists believe that the Book of Revelation is a prophetic account about things that have already been fulfilled, they search high and low through historical records of the first century [primarily Josephus’ writings] in an attempt to find historical details that could possibly be the fulfillment of the prophecies contained in the Book of Revelation.

    One of their widely held beliefs is that the Antichrist, also referred to as “the beast” in the Book of Revelation, was actually the Roman Emperor Nero.

    Could this be?

    Could those passages about the Antichrist, the beast, the lawless one (2 Thess. 2:9) be a reference, not to a coming world ruler, but a reference to the Roman Emperor Nero?

    Not at all.

    Why do we know that?

    Well, look with me at 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

    2 Thessalonians 2:8

    “And then the lawless one [that is one of the titles given to the Antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.” NKJV

    Q. How does the Bible say this lawless one, the Antichrist, will be brought to an end?

    A. By Christ.

    Q. When will that happen? Notice the verse again.

    2 Thessalonians 2:8

    “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.” NKJV

    The Bible teaches that this lawless one, the Antichrist, will be brought to an end by the Lord Himself at Christ’s “coming.”

    Well, this verse poses some serious problems for preterists.

    How so?

    A. This was not how Nero died.

    For those of you who may be familiar with first century history, you know that Nero committed suicide at the age of 31, by cutting his own throat. [Source: “he drove a dagger into his throat” –Suetonius (c.69 – c.140) The Lives of the Twelve Caesars]

    Far from being consumed by the breath of Christ at his coming, Nero actually took his own life.

    That’s not all…

    B. Nero committed suicide two years before preterists say that Christ came back.

    Preterists (including partial preterists) believe that Jesus’ prophesy about coming back in Matthew 24, was fulfilled spiritually in A.D. 70.

    But Nero committed suicide in June of A.D. 68, two years before A.D. 70!

    Nero’s suicide, two years before A.D. 70, falls far short of being a fulfillment of what 2 Thessalonians 2:8 says will happen to the Antichrist.

    There are some other insurmountable problems that exist when it comes to the preteristic teaching that Nero was the Antichrist.

    C. Daniel 9:27 says that the prince who is to come, an Old Testament reference to the coming world leader, would make a seven year covenant relating to Israel. Nero never made any such covenant.

    D. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 says that this coming world leader will take “his seat in the , displaying himself as being God.” That never happened. Nero never stepped foot in the temple in .

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

    3  “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day [speaking of the Great Tribulation, the second half of the Tribulation period] will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” NKJV

    E. In fact, Nero never stepped foot in .

    F. Revelation 13:16-17 says that under the Antichrist’s coming government, there will be given to the people of the world a mark on their hand or forehead that will permit them to buy and sell. Nothing of the sort ever occurred under Nero, nor ever has to this date.

    These facts relating to Nero are just another blow to the preterist view of the end times.

    None of these things ever happened.

    A fifth blow to the preterist position is…

    5.     There is no evidence that the great judgments of Revelation ever occurred.

    The Book of Revelation tells us that in the coming time of Tribulation, when God’s wrath is going to be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, the earth will experience three waves of judgment, with each wave containing seven judgments each:

    The Book of Revelation tells us of…

    –7 seal judgments

    –7 trumpet judgments

    –7 bowl judgments

    …judgments that will devastate the earth.

    It will be a time of, as Jesus said,…

    Matthew 24:21

    “a great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

    These judgments, talked about in the Book of Revelation, describe…

    A. The turning of a 1/3 of the sea into blood (Rev. 8:8)

    B. The death of a third of all sea life dying (Rev. 8:9)

    C. A third of the world’s ships being destroyed. (Rev. 8:9)

    Look at Revelation 8:8-9…

    Revelation 8:8-9

    8  Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. NKJV

    Q. When did that ever happen in the events surrounding the destruction of ?

    A. Nothing like that has ever happened in the history of the world.

    The Book of Revelation also prophesied of…

    D. The most devastating earthquake that has ever taken place.

    Revelation 16:18-19

    “…there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city [a reference to , see Rev. 11:8] was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.” NKJV

    Q. When was there ever in the first century an earthquake that not only split Jerusalem into three parts but caused “the cities of the nations” [plural, not just Jerusalem] to fall?

    A. Well of course that never happened.

    That earthquake is still to come.

    The Book of Revelation also prophesied of…

    E. An event that will wipe out 25 percent of the earth’s population.

    Revelation 6:8

    “And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.” NKJV

    Q. When did that happen?

    John, seeing into the future also prophesied of…

    F. Three plagues that will wipe out one third of the remaining population.

    Revelation 9:18

    “By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed.” NKJV

    Q. Was a third of mankind killed by three plagues in the first century?

    A. No.

    The Book of Revelation also prophesies…

    G. Two witnesses

    Revelation 11:5-6

    “two witnesses…[who] will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” [in , who will be able to destroy their enemies with fire (Rev. 11:5) and who will be able] “to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.”(11:6)

    John goes on to say that these two witnesses will be killed, only to be resurrected and carried up to heaven in the sight of their enemies (in Rev. 11:12).

    There is no record that anything of the sort happened in the first century.

    Q. Where is there mention of any of these things being literally fulfilled in the annals of history, secular or Christian?

    There isn’t.

    It is only by departing from the normal, literal, historical, grammatical method of interpretation, and allegorizing, that preterists can seek to say that some events in  around A.D. 70 fulfilled some of these prophesies.

    None of things mentioned in the Book of Revelation, chapters 6-22 have happened.

    When they do, they are going to be fulfilled literally, just like God’s past judgments were fulfilled in:

    –The destruction of  and

    –The Days of Pharaoh before the Exodus

    –And the whole earth at the time of the flood spoken of in Genesis 7

    [See chapter 5 in The End Times Controversy, Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (general editors) where pastor and teacher John MacArthur deals with this topic in an in-depth manner.]

    Lastly, let’s turn to the Book of Zechariah, chapters 12.

    Zechariah prophesied, or foretold many of the events that will lead up to the Messiah’s coming in glory which he talks about in Zechariah chapter 14.

    This book proves to be very problematic for the preterist position.

    Chapter 12 here tells us that immediately before the Messiah’s coming in glory to the  in glory (14:4), that “all the nations of the world” will be gathered against .

    Let’s read chapter 12:3…

    Zechariah 12:3 God is speaking…

    3  “And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.” NKJV

    Zechariah 14:2 says the same thing…

    2 “For I will gather all the nations to battle against ;” NKJV

    Why is what Zechariah says here problematic for the preterist view?

    In A.D. 70, right before preterists say Jesus came back, it was only the Romans who came against .

    ADD: Charlie, what other nations existed at the time of A.D. 70, if any?

    But God says here in Zechariah that in the time immediately preceding Christ’s coming in glory that…

    Zechariah 14:2

    2 “…I will gather all the nations to battle against ;” NKJV

    This gathering of “all the nations of the earth” (Zech. 12:3) against  has never occurred.

    It will happen during the coming Tribulation period, at what is commonly referred to as the Battle of Armageddon [a battle that will begin in Megiddo as a gathering place and ultimately end up in Jerusalem] spoken of in Rev. 16:14, 16,  when…

    Revelation 16:14, 16

    14 “…[The] spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty…And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.” NKJV

    So a sixth problem for the preterist is that…

    6.     The Bible says the battle that immediately precedes Christ’s second coming will involve a gathering of “all the nations” (Zechariah 12:3, 14:2) and “the kings of the earth” (Revelation ) and this never happened in the first century.

    Next, notice…

    Zechariah 12:8

    8  In that day [speaking of the time that this gathering against Israel will take place] the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. NKJV

    The Bible prophesies here that in that invasion against “the inhabitants of ” that God is going to QUOTE: “defend the inhabitants of .” (Zech. 12:8)

    Q. What happened in A.D. 70, when the Romans invaded ?

    Josephus, that 1st century Roman historian, wrote an account of the event.

    He tells us that the Romans put to death a million Jews and led 100,000 into captivity.

    Well, that is hardly a description of God defending the inhabitants of , as Zechariah prophesies will happen.

    The deliverance that Zechariah prophesied is still yet to occur and will occur right before the Messiah comes (14:4).

    So this is a seventh problem for the preterist.

    7.     In the battle that takes place immediately before Jesus comes in glory, God is going to “defend the inhabitants of ” (Zechariah 12:8). That did not happen in A.D. 70.

    Another problem surfaces for the preterist in v. 9…

    Zechariah 12:9 says…

    “And it will come about in that day that I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against .”

    Not only is God going to defend (v.8) the inhabitants of , He is going to what?

    Notice the verse again. God is going to…

    “…destroy all the nations that come against .” (Zech. 12:9)

    Skip down to chapter 14.

    Still speaking of the same time period (right before the Messiah comes in glory) we read in v. 3…

    Zechariah 14:3 says…

    “Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.”

    This is another insurmountable problem for those holding to the preterist position.

    Q. When did the Lord ever, in the first century, gather together all the nations against  to battle, and then destroy them?

    A. He didn’t.

    There is nothing in the history of the ’s that would qualify as a fulfillment of what Zechariah foretold there.

    So, problem number eight…

    8.     God said He would “destroy all the nations” that would “come against ,” and that never happened (Zechariah 12:9, 14:3).

    Let’s just look at one more problem for the preterist.

    It surfaces in v. 9…

    Zechariah 14:4 says…

    “And in that day His feet [the LORD’s (v.3)] will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.”

    When the Lord comes back, and “every eye” sees Him, like Revelation 1:7 says, He is going to come back to the Mount of Olives (the very place of His ascension-Acts 1:12) and it is literally going to split in two.

    Well, it barely needs to be said, but that never happened in A.D. 70, and if preterists say that it did, when did it get moved back to the way it is today?

    It’s much easier to see Zechariah 14:4 as something that will be fulfilled in the future.

    So, for you note takers, no. 9…

    9.     The Bible says that when the LORD comes back, the Mount of Olives is going to be split in two, and that never happened in A.D. 70, the year preterists say Jesus came back (Zechariah 14:4).

    So, we have seen that there are some very good reasons why preterism should be rejected.

    First we noted that their own proof texts fail to support their case.

    Then we went on to see that…

    1. None of the church fathers mentioned Christ’s second coming as having already occurred.

    2. The Christians alive during A.D. 70, as well as the Church Fathers, believed the Second Coming was a future event.

    3. The Book of Revelation was not even written until approximately A.D. 95, long after the events of surrounding A.D. 70.

    4. The Roman Emperor Nero could not possibly have been the Antichrist as preterists suggest.

    5. There is no evidence that the great judgments of Revelation were ever literally fulfilled.

    6. The Bible says the battle that immediately precedes Christ’s second coming will involve a gathering of “all the nations” and “the kings of the earth” and this never happened in the first century.

    7. In the battle that takes place immediately before Jesus comes in glory, God is going to “defend the inhabitants of ” (Zechariah 12:8), something that did not happen in A.D. 70.

    8. God said He would destroy the nations that would “come against ,” and that never happened (Zechariah 12:9, 14:3).

    9. The Bible says that when the LORD comes back, the Mount of Olives is going to be split in two, and that never happened in A.D. 70, the year preterists say Jesus came back (Zechariah 14:4).

    For these reasons it is clear to see that preterism is an incorrect view of the end times.

    May I encourage you to examine the Scriptures daily!

    We must hold up everything that men like Hank Hanegraaff (and others who we have greatly respected) to the Word of God (Isaiah , 1 Thessalonians , Acts ).

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